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[Magnus]

Hello everyone!

New forum user here, long time lurker and short time player of DF.
Got a budding fortress all set up in a relatively peaceful environment, though I'm sure that'll change once the hubris sets in.

Anyhow, I was reading this wiki page about cages:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Cage#How_to_disarm_hostiles_in_cages
And got to the part where it said it's possible to cage fluids. Hmm.

It has not been tested with magma.

Magma might be possible to store in a cage.

Cages can be loaded in minecarts. A lot of cages.

Minecarts release their cages' contents when hitting things at a high speed.

Minecarts can reach a ☼high speed☼.

I'm picturing one setup that pushes goblins into cage traps using flowing magma.
Then you load those magma-filled cages up in a minecart of DOOM.
Then you unload that cart using standard minecart shotgun principles.

What I'm hoping for is that with, say 20 cages, you could get more magma released than what can fit in one minecart just by driving it through a magma flow.
A horizontal column of 7/7 magma and !!goblins!! traveling at projectile speeds across the map would be glorious.

I'll dedicate my fortress to testing this. I'll start with caging water, then moving onto !!science!!.

[smjjames]

I'm pretty sure that cages won't break open if you fling them at high speeds from minecarts, let us know what you find out though.

[Magnus]

Well, according to the same page they do break open if they collide with something, i.e. after being flung by a bridge/shot by a minecart/thrown by tantruming Mayor... If they do release the magma on impact it could be an interesting premise for a fiery trebuchet.

Edit: OR, if loaded with cages that have both magma and water, a remote obsidian caster. That'll teach those megabeasts. Going home to test this now.

[Larix]

I suspect producing lava-filled cages this way would be a very,very slow process with massive waste on the way - the creatures you cage must survive contact with the hot stuff long enough to actually get pushed into the cage by it, and in my experience, they tend to expire almost instantly. I don't know if a goblin will commonly survive getting hit with pressurised magma pushing them towards an immediately adjacent cage trap.

Getting water into a cage is much easier: build it and declare it an aquarium. This only works with glass "cages", i.e. terraria. It will also only put a single stack of "ten water" (5kg) into the container, the amount that fits in a bucket. However, if you have a biome that's sufficiently cold, you can assign your aquarium in winter. The water put into the aquarium will freeze, either into a stack of ten ice or ten single "ice" lumps (each about 1/2 kg), i can't remember which. The fun thing is that the dwarfs will keep putting new water into the aquarium whenever the old water has frozen, so you can easily have a few hundred ice cubes in there. While each won't hurt much, i wager the pure quantity should make it a decent option for grapeshot. And it just needs glass cages, a well and idle dwarfs to set up, not a super-complicated caging scheme.

Works best in freezing biomes, obviously, where you don't have to deal with your ice melting. I'll better try this sometime.

[Magnus]

Your idea is better. It does snow during springtime in my fortress, though I haven't got to summer yet. I imagine a year's worth of quantum aquarium ice would amount to a few tons at least. What would happen if the ice then re-melted, would the water return to normal amounts or would it stay crazy so you could refill it next winter?

[ImagoDeo]

It's hard to say. It depends on how the data structure for cages works with regard to liquids inside.

[MDFification]

Fairly certain you can just skip the cage and load the minecart with magma, which can then be flung at things.

[Merendel]

Look up some of the various threads involving dwarven water cannons (also sometimes called a wave cannon)  there have been several that detail how to make an auto loader that will fill minecarts with water and then cause the minecart to accellerate and then launch the water glob as a missle down a hallway.  It should in therory work for magma with a few modifications and would give you a place to start.  you'll probably have to put up with a slower fireing rate with magma sadly as magma isnt quite as convenient as water with an aquifer for refilling/disposal.

*shudders at the thought of weaponized globs of magma flying at high speeds*    oops pardon me I need to go clean my troll hair loincloth.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

This seems like the easiest way to put more magma into minecarts. And one of the most hilarious in principle. It takes longer to reload, though, unless you use the aquarium design, in which case you merely need to recover the aquariums. Using a system that causes aquaria to drop into a lower area (and if you leave enough time between shots), you should be capable of safely recovering your aquaria and be capable of refilling it within a couple dozen clicks.

Incidentally, how many tiles of water would a minecart fully loaded with filled aquaria (at the normal, non-quantum storage amount) produce?

[TeleDwarf]

well, anti-riot magma-cannons are cool without cages. That is true. What do cages add? They add explosive effect - they only release magma on impact, instead of all over the hall...

But how about mixing water-filled cages and magma-filled cages in the same minecart? Would it lead to a stoning gun? Or will it  create stone rays, like in case of dwarven submarine experiment?

OP, I request more !!science!! here.

[smjjames]

well, anti-riot magma-cannons are cool without cages. That is true. What do cages add? They add explosive effect - they only release magma on impact, instead of all over the hall...

But how about mixing water-filled cages and magma-filled cages in the same minecart? Would it lead to a stoning gun? Or will it  create stone rays, like in case of dwarven submarine experiment?

OP, I request more !!science!! here.

Or it might obsidianize the hallway?

[Di]

Nope, cages don't capture liquids, and when they capture someone underwater, no liquid glob is created, only coverings.
The cage preserve the state of creature, so if it was drowning in the moment of capture it'll presumably drown even if water is pumped out right away.

Also, bins don't 'explode' upon hitting creature. Probably something with Toadian laws of energy and momentum unpreservation. Bins can be made into extremely heavy projectiles or be launched at wall for shotgun effect.

Finally, cartception gun. Cart takes 8% of volume, so it's possible to pack 12 of those into one. Upon the impact all inner minecarts get launched but on the next step all but one of them tangle together launching their contents. A single cart will continue it's flight without losing contents. It behaves like projectile and can stagger to the side unlike traditionally accelerated carts.

Spoiler: One of the tests (click to show/hide)

free image hosting

Thus it's possible to launch multiple globs of water in a single shot. With some advanced engineering it is possible to make reloading automated, well at least to require only dwarves not your attention. However rate of fire would be lover than that of conventional watergun. And the ability of shooting many times in a row is the selling point of any watergun.

[Dwarf4Explosives]

The advantage to this is that we now have heavier ammunition. The normal wavegun cannot hurt the larger types of creature enough to be effective.

Also, this is quicker to set up than the speed-shot type of watergun, which relies too much on impulse ramps for speed. Setting up one of these is basically a faucet plus some rollers, along with a small workforce.

[Di]

Umh, what?
We don't get heavier globs of water, we get up to 12 of them in one shot.
And it's in no way simpler than standard watergun, you still need to have refill system and impulse or real ramps for acceleration.

[Broken]

The advantage to this is that we now have heavier ammunition. The normal wavegun cannot hurt the larger types of creature enough to be effective.

Thats false. A standard watercannon can kill demons with ease.