Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Svirfneblim]

Playing the new version of the game, I find myself unhappy with the speed, especially when playing with a large local area.
Since it might be time for a computer upgrade for me, I want to ask for your advice what should I upgrade and what technical details I should be mindful of if I want Dwarf Fortress to run faster.
Let's assume I don't care about any other games performance for now.

I have:
AMD ATHLON(TM)XP 2200+
1.800GHz, 1,00 GB RAM

I assume that graphic card does not matter here. Mine ran 'Rome:Total War' briskly enough.

When buying a new processor, what should I pay attention too? Only MHz or fancy stuff like 'dual core' or whatever? I have to admit I'm quite inept about technology. Also, is extra RAM good DF-wise?

And something that Toady himself might be able to answer, should I realistically look forward to the game being optimized and running faster than it does now, or is the current speed one we're most likely have to accept, for better or worse?

[termitehead]

it's really all down to raw power CPU-wise.  Dual cores won't help, ram is always nice, but DF doesn't need more than what you already have.  Get up to 2.5Ghz+ and you'll do much better.

[Jaqie Fox]

core2. the highest Mhz of core2 you can find. if you want it, a dual core version helps a little.

The reason for core2? it is the fastest per Mhz cpu you can get for the money right now, best bang for the buck.

Don't get an onboard video card, they use the main ram for video ram, and even games like DF do slow down sharing the precious little ram bandwidth for video - Ive proof of that right here with my two athlon systems both running a 6100-M9 motherboard with onboard video (that uses main ram as almost all onboard do). I also have a geforce 6600 and geforce 7900GS to plug into them and the speed difference with DF was quite noticeable when switching from onboard video to either of the addin discrete video cards (and disabling onboard).  In short, get any cheap but discrete video card, a 6600 is fine and can be had for $50ish or less.

[Svirfneblim]

I'm sorry, but how do I tell if a video card is onboard type or not?
Mine is WinFast A6600GT and shows as 'localization 7(PCI 1, device 0, function 0)

Thanks a lot for the quick and troughout reply, though!

[nagromo]

If it's a 6600GT, it's almost certainly not onboard. Onboard means it's built into the Motherboard.

One way to tell is look at the back of the computer. If the monitor is plugged into a horizontal expansion slot, it's not onboard. If it's plugged into the vertical row of connectors on the side, it's connected to the motherboard; that means that it's onboard. (This is assuming that you have a "standard" tower/case.)

Also, I agree that you should get a Core 2 Duo. They're the best processors currently available, both in power and in power per price.

Upgrading from an Athalon XP to a Core 2 Duo means you'll probably need almost everything new, though. You definitely need a new motherboard and RAM (DDR2 instead of DDR).

You probably also need a new video card. Even though your current one is fast enough for DF, it probably uses AGP, and new motherboards only support PCI-Express.

Depending on how many IDE connectors your new motherboard has, you may also need a new hard drive; your old hard drive is probably IDE, and new ones are Serial ATA.

[ October 30, 2007: Message edited by: nagromo ]

[Serialized]

From what I can tell, CPU speed is the biggest slow down to Dwarf Fortress.

I just started a game on a relatively large local area, and my CPU is at 100% capacity although the game isn't even allocating 256 MB (it's at about 170 MB but I'm sure it'll go up while playing). So, go for a faster CPU.

Dual Core will probably not significantly improve speed over single core, but go for dual core anyways, since it's much better in general. If your computer is processing another application as well, then you could theoretically still play DF with dual core.

If Toady reads this:
Are there plans for optimizations that will significantly improve CPU usage, or is the nature of the problem such that it's not going to get any faster?

[Tamren]

Get dual core for sure.

Someone mentioned earlier than DF ran multiple threads. Whether or not this is true the computer will be able to run all of the background stuff on one core. This leaves the other core to chew on DF.

Much more efficient.

[Mud]

Cores 2s probably aren't a good idea, because DF can only use one of those cores. It's also important to remember that for a game like DF, the L2 cache is almost as important as raw power, because it takes a great deal of memory to simulate all those tiles/rocks/dwarfs. Having a large L2 cache is important for speeding up memory-related stuff.

Also, don't make judgments based on clock speed alone. There are Pentium IVs that reach 3Ghz and above, but a Core 2 Duo running at 1.5Ghz can trounce even the fastest Pentium IV any day. Clock speed is just a measure of the power the CPU is using, and while that does indicate something there's a whole lot of other factors involved. It's best to base your judgment in CPUs on performance tests, rather than just raw clock speed.

[Core Xii]

There's a lot of false information flying around here.

Dwarf Fortress runs 2 threads!

Windows XP runs over 50 threads!

Even if DF had only one thread (practically it probably does, for the actual work), you would gain significant advantage of having dual core or even quad core, because your operating system alone is running several threads. If you only have a single core, all these threads are run sequentially, among DF, and thus, less time for DF to process!

[Javewa]

Does DF use both cores on a Dual? I'm running a 3.4@4.1 Ghz P4 with HyperThreading (fills in idle cycles) that shows up in Windows as two processors, which I assume dual cores do too. In the Task Manager DF never goes above 50% usage. Sure, I can put all other apps and services onto the other core and watch videos while tormenting dwarfs but the processor rarely runs at full capacity anyway.
Haven't tried to disable HT in BIOS yet, since I'm obviously too busy playing DF to even consider a restart.  

Just curious if this is handled differently by real dual cores.

[Jaqie Fox]

OK this is so much bullshit.

**DO NOT POST ADVICE IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!**

First of all, core2 is not a dual core cpu, it is a cpu architecture and model. they have single core models and dual core models along with quad core models.  Secondly, DF is *NOT* multithreaded, it runs a single process and only runs on a single core at a time, windows swaps it from core to core when you have more then one core in your system to try to keep the load even on the cores (this is from when two cores were in two seperate dies and heat generation needed to be kept even).  Running a dual core cpu to run a single app is not worth it if you are tight on money, but it is worth it if you have the extra cash to spare, as windows itself needs cpu resources to take care of standard system operations such as pushing data around (to oversimplify it).
Hyperthreading is *NOT* dual core, it is, at best, a core-and-a-half, a hardware hack. P4 (netburst) architecture is dog-slow compared to a core2 based CPU/system and even athlon XP based systems.

For the best DF performance, do as I already said. get a core2 based system with a discrete (non-onboard) video card that does not use shared ram (some cheap ass vidcards use system ram as part of their ram, do not get these. they go by many names)  The surest, cheapest method is to get a new "box" (tower) all new built for you by a local mom & pop computer shop, and keep the keyboard, mouse, and monitor you are using now for it, then selling off the old "box".  Tell them you want a Core2 based machine with a non-onboard video card that doesn't use shared ram.

[ October 30, 2007: Message edited by: Jaqie Fox ]

[Reality_Unknown]

I have an Intel COre 2 Duo E6750 @ 2.66 Ghz CPU and i ran the old version at like over 200 FPS and like nearly 250 when jsut starting a new fortreses on a glacier

with the new version it really depends on the map, my first map was as large as can be on the coast and my frame rate was like 30, (not too shure how the framerate works now i fiddled with the .init settings) but on my current map wich has only a little coast i have a 1/2 of maximum sized map running at 50 fps with 32 dwarves and a longwise running ocean on my map but almost no underground deep mining going on.

My second new version map was default sized area and ran at like 170 fps (if i remember correctly) in the middle of a dense forest

Dual cores wont run Dwarf fortress any faster, except that your other applications like operating system (i have vista 64 bit), or music and video and web browsing gets run on the other chip/core/thingimajig. i think that is because you have to program the game differently nearly from scratch to take advantage of double cores.

E6750 i chose because all the gamers had Q6600 Quad cores and were braging about how great they were and i looked at the numbers and E6750 had bigger equal or bigger FSB frontsidebus, and i stayed with the intel core 2's because they are the fastest at the time despite the 2.66 GHZ rating. also the E6750 was the cheapest of the cpu's and the rest were getting prohibitingly expensive  
but those better ones bight not be so bad now (at the time e6750 and like E6850 had like 80-120$ difference)

And be carefull who you listen to, i only dabble in computers it sounds like jaqui fox knows more but i can give you my experiance.

PS be carefull with laptops because i have tried running dwarf fortress on laptops and get like 30 fps in the best of conditions , could have somethign to do with the fact that they have integrated video cards(usually) . i wrote this a jaqui fox posted becaus i too hate seeing people get bullcrap computer advice it is depressing

[Jaqie Fox]

You're right on there, on all counts. Bad computer advice makes me see red in a big way... and yes, I used to be a hardware pc technician before I became too disabled to do it anymore... and as was said in another thread not long ago, people with high functioning autism (aka asperger's) tend to pick a single thing and hyperfocus on it for their entire life... computer hardware is and has always been my obsession, not just a hobby, so yes I have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject and always will. (fear the person that says they know *everything* about *ANY* subject, they are fooling themselves and their advice is often the least reliable of any!)

Oh, and by the way, there is no U in my name, it is Jaqie.

[Serialized]

As I mentioned before, dual cores probably won't help much with DF, but it's worth having if you're going to build a new computer. Realistically, it probably won't JUST be a DF machine, after all.

[nagromo]

quote:Originally posted by Jaqie Fox:
<STRONG>OK this is so much bullshit.

**DO NOT POST ADVICE IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!**

First of all, core2 is not a dual core cpu, it is a cpu architecture and model. they have single core models and dual core models along with quad core models....</STRONG>

No; they don't make single-core Core 2 Duo. Your only options are dual or quad core. Other than that, I agree with your post :-D

Dual core will not hurt you. It will help you in some things and not have any effect on others. Getting a dual core probably won't noticeably help DF run faster for you, but you should still get a Core 2 Duo. (Not any ddual core, a Core 2 Duo.) The core 2 duo may have two cores, but each individual core is extremely fast; it's better than the Athalons in single-thread tasks, too.