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[syvarris]

Hmm.  Feet aren't end parts.  The only end parts are hands, actually.  And I don't think PW has stated that the default body plan discriminates based on limb type...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

                          Head
                           |
Hand-Upper Arm-Upper Arm-Chest-Upper Leg-Upper Leg-Lower Leg-Lower Leg-Foot-Foot-Hand
                           |
                Lower Arm-Guts-Lower Arm

Default human body shape:
   O
OOOOOOO
   |
OOOOOOO

My body shape:
   O
OOOOOOOEEEE
   |
XXOOOXX

('E' means 'Extra', 'X' means 'Missing')

This leaves me with +20 str using my strong limb, +50 speed using my fast limb, and I keep all the standard bonuses.  As a penalty, I have four limbs on a branch outside the bounds of my body plan, which grants a heavy humanity penalty (which grows exponentially, IIRC), but I can easily shorten it by two feet and only lose ten speed.  I'm also horribly crippled if the fast limb is chopped off, but hopefully overarmoring the limb should help with that.  Also, ridiculous dodge numbers.   Oh, and I can fill in the missing limb slots with stolen torsos and heads to buff my int and heart, at very little penalty.

Stat distribution:
12 str (Hopefully those stubby little lower arms let me armor my omnilimb more...)
69 dex (autosuccess on triple-attacks.)
79 int (Guarantees limb attachment, which is kinda necessary to completely reconfigure my whole body at game start.)
40 hrt (Don't wanna nerf heart much because I probably can't dodgetank demon magic)

[MidnightJaguar]

.....I propose that we upgrade syv from munchkin to force of nature.

[Xantalos]

Syv, are you trying to become Mr. Fingers?

Because it sounds like you'd like to be Mr. Fingers.

[Imic]

Could I join? No idea what this is, but I'm intrested!

[piecewise]

Could I join? No idea what this is, but I'm intrested!

It's still getting made, but once it is ready, sure you can.

Hmm.  Feet aren't end parts.  The only end parts are hands, actually.  And I don't think PW has stated that the default body plan discriminates based on limb type...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

                          Head
                           |
Hand-Upper Arm-Upper Arm-Chest-Upper Leg-Upper Leg-Lower Leg-Lower Leg-Foot-Foot-Hand
                           |
                Lower Arm-Guts-Lower Arm

Default human body shape:
   O
OOOOOOO
   |
OOOOOOO

My body shape:
   O
OOOOOOOEEEE
   |
XXOOOXX

('E' means 'Extra', 'X' means 'Missing')

This leaves me with +20 str using my strong limb, +50 speed using my fast limb, and I keep all the standard bonuses.  As a penalty, I have four limbs on a branch outside the bounds of my body plan, which grants a heavy humanity penalty (which grows exponentially, IIRC), but I can easily shorten it by two feet and only lose ten speed.  I'm also horribly crippled if the fast limb is chopped off, but hopefully overarmoring the limb should help with that.  Also, ridiculous dodge numbers.   Oh, and I can fill in the missing limb slots with stolen torsos and heads to buff my int and heart, at very little penalty.

Stat distribution:
12 str (Hopefully those stubby little lower arms let me armor my omnilimb more...)
69 dex (autosuccess on triple-attacks.)
79 int (Guarantees limb attachment, which is kinda necessary to completely reconfigure my whole body at game start.)
40 hrt (Don't wanna nerf heart much because I probably can't dodgetank demon magic)

Well, looks like I'll have to make building outside your slots prohibitively expensive. Square of the combined humanity cost should do it.

And a rule about not using the same limb to attack and dodge.

[piecewise]

Actually no...thats boring.

Lets instead make it something more dangerous.

[piecewise]

There we go. Now if Sy attempts to use his "fast limb" it requires him to get a 150 roll for humanity or he'll take a sudden 50 point humanity loss and auto-fail.

[syvarris]

Spoiler: I wrote this up but PW ninja'd me before I could post (click to show/hide)

Simply squaring combined cost seems insufficient.  How much humanity cost does a pure and original human limb cost?  One?  That's 4^2, so sixteen.  Trivial.  Two?  74 is pretty expensive, though acceptable.  Three?  144 is prohibitive, but remove the two feet--only losing ten speed--and we're down to 36, which is certainly fine.  Not to mention, this nerfs legitimately interesting things like wings and nonhuman bodyshapes in general, without significantly harming the described strategy.  Three humanity seems pretty expensive for human limbs, anyway. 

Making you need to use different limbs is fine though, as that basically cuts speed bonus in half.  It makes severs less damaging, but nerfs speed significantly, which honestly is a necessary change; strength builds can't multi-attack as easily.

For carry weight and armor, is your limit determined by your base strength score, or by your modified strength score?  Do those vestigial lower arms in my body plan increase my total strength, therefore meaning completely unrelated limbs can have more armor than they otherwise would?  If not, does that mean strength bonuses on limbs have no use beyond improving attacks with said limb?

Edit: Is this the changed part?

A Player can also attach a part outside the normal slots, such as adding another head, but if they do so, they have to pay the combined cost of all the parts in the new limb raised to a power equal to the number of new parts. So a limb with 2 parts at 3 and 4 humanity cost would instead cost 7² or lower their humanity max by 49. The Number of “normal” slots can be expanded via leveling up.

I'm unsure because you say "use" rather than "create", and the square root of 150 isn't an integer.

Edit2: Oh holy shit, human limbs cost ten?  That means you need a modified heart of at least 151 to not immediately die!  How the hell is that logical balance?!
...Wait, oh, "if beyond normal slots".  Not braindead, but still idiotic.  Basically just means you can never ever add parts outside your body plan, since 10^2 is 100.  Unless human limbs are more demonic than demon limbs when arranged in a nonhuman way, which is, uhh.  :\

[Tiruin]

Could I join? No idea what this is, but I'm intrested!

It's still getting made, but once it is ready, sure you can.

I'm catching up with all the development and cast my thumbs up at the progress being made. This is great work piecewise.

[syvarris]

Oh hey I already figured out a better munchkin strat since PW hamstrung the last one.  0 all stats, 230 heart.  This would mean 690 effective stat points redi... wait, no, there's a cap of fifty.  Damn.

When performing an action or save, such as attacking, dodging or resisting demonic effects, you can use the bonuses of any part in one limb. You can use the bonus from up to 3 parts for free, but any parts used beyond that requires a bit of risk. Namely, a Heart save equal to 100 + the total bonus gained from the part usage. For example, if you had a 5 part limb that gave you +50 to Strength and you used it to attack, you’d have to succeed on a heart roll with a target number of 150. If you succeed on the roll, your action goes through normally. If not, you lose humanity points equal to the bonus you would have gotten and your action automatically fails. Note: you can NOT use bonuses from parts for the heart roll.

Ohh, this is the part PW was referring to.  Doesn't this conflict with the basic idea of the game, increasing stats through demon parts?  It requires ridiculously high natural heart to use large nonhuman limbs without risk.  For instance, the hulk arm that PW talked about a few pages ago would count as more than three parts, meaning you're basically banned from using it without excessive heart.  Even if you can use it, there's little benefit over human limbs beyond it likely being less demonic than them, so you can do multi-limb stacking more easily if you have truly excessive heart.

...Hmm.  Actually, you only need 40 modified heart to safely deal with a +50 limb (momentarily ignoring the excessive 100 humanity cost for having a 50% longer leg); You'll take a hit of fifty humanity, but immediately regen 4*15=60 humanity, leaving you completely normal.  If you add thirty points and get to 70 humanity, you can spend fifty humanity on buffing a single roll, too.  It's a dangerously large temporary drop if you're taking humanity damage from other sources, but under normal circumstances it's perfectly fine.  Basically, this is just a way to more efficiently pump humanity points into a stat; it's uncapped, applies to all rolls, and is 1-to-1 rather than 2-to-1.  And sometimes has no cost.  The primary penalty is that you can't necessarily stop spending humanity on the buff, and even that is ambiguous, by on PW's wording.

[piecewise]

Spoiler: I wrote this up but PW ninja'd me before I could post (click to show/hide)

Simply squaring combined cost seems insufficient.  How much humanity cost does a pure and original human limb cost?  One?  That's 4^2, so sixteen.  Trivial.  Two?  74 is pretty expensive, though acceptable.  Three?  144 is prohibitive, but remove the two feet--only losing ten speed--and we're down to 36, which is certainly fine.  Not to mention, this nerfs legitimately interesting things like wings and nonhuman bodyshapes in general, without significantly harming the described strategy.  Three humanity seems pretty expensive for human limbs, anyway. 

Making you need to use different limbs is fine though, as that basically cuts speed bonus in half.  It makes severs less damaging, but nerfs speed significantly, which honestly is a necessary change; strength builds can't multi-attack as easily.

For carry weight and armor, is your limit determined by your base strength score, or by your modified strength score?  Do those vestigial lower arms in my body plan increase my total strength, therefore meaning completely unrelated limbs can have more armor than they otherwise would?  If not, does that mean strength bonuses on limbs have no use beyond improving attacks with said limb?

Edit: Is this the changed part?

A Player can also attach a part outside the normal slots, such as adding another head, but if they do so, they have to pay the combined cost of all the parts in the new limb raised to a power equal to the number of new parts. So a limb with 2 parts at 3 and 4 humanity cost would instead cost 7² or lower their humanity max by 49. The Number of “normal” slots can be expanded via leveling up.

I'm unsure because you say "use" rather than "create", and the square root of 150 isn't an integer.

Edit2: Oh holy shit, human limbs cost ten?  That means you need a modified heart of at least 151 to not immediately die!  How the hell is that logical balance?!
...Wait, oh, "if beyond normal slots".  Not braindead, but still idiotic.  Basically just means you can never ever add parts outside your body plan, since 10^2 is 100.  Unless human limbs are more demonic than demon limbs when arranged in a nonhuman way, which is, uhh.  :\

Nah, it just means you can't add more than 1 outside the body plan. Because that would be 10^1 or 10. You just can't build giant limbs outside it.

Also, remember it's the combined total cost of the limb so it would actually be 20^2 or 400~

Unless of course you have a better system of limiting giant limb expansion?

[syvarris]

Ahh, yeah, that's better, since it scales with size.  I still don't think it's a very good system (see the load of edits I've been making on posts as I've been looking over things), but I don't have any better suggestions offhand.

[piecewise]

How about this: you only have to do those heart rolls if the limb parts being used are out of the normal range?

[NJW2000]

What if there was a grace stat which basically tried to prevent munchkinness by having maluses to anything annoying on the grounds that it would be awkward to move or use?

[piecewise]

What if there was a grace stat which basically tried to prevent munchkinness by having maluses to anything annoying on the grounds that it would be awkward to move or use?

Unfortunately that becomes the "GM Nail-bat" stat. And that requires me being an effective jerk.