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[piecewise]

Jonny Doe run to the window and shoot the monster.
Piecewise (GM): Through the dead dog?
Because someone taped a dead dog here

[Parisbre56]

I hope someone is keeping those logs. Both for posterity and so I can read them when I have time.

[spazyak]

I seem to be having good luck today at killing things, 3 enemies, 1 friend, and a good chunk of the bath is now coated in molten burning sugar

[piecewise]

I wonder about how to make these stats more balanced since Str is the be all end all of combat. We could do a split and make str melee and dex ranged...But most people are gonna be using guns the whole time because  why not? Why fight the giant flesh blob with your fists when a gun is available and can be effective outside the flesh blob's range of beating you to death.

What I should probably do is tie dex directly to movement speed.  I could theoretically add in dodging with it, but that would massively extend combat times. Because you would then have a roll to hit, it has a roll to dodge, and already if you're both at 10 in the respective stats the chances of actually doing damage are 25%.

Anyways, back to adding more items and further explaining others

[piecewise]

I've expanding the damage range and took sy's suggestion to switch impaired and advantageous to scaling up and down the damage range rather than being a flat number. So now a punch from ambush does 2d4 while a d6 shot from ambush does d10

[Harry Baldman]

What I should probably do is tie dex directly to movement speed.

A precise movement speed influenced by Dex certainly wouldn't go amiss. Maybe Dex times two plus 10 in feet per round (or a mathematically sensible third of that in meters, if you're feeling spacey and metric)?

[Gentlefish]

If you want a "to dodge" you can instead roll, instead of success, something like your combat roll under their defense roll (10 + DEX)

[Ozarck]

I wonder about how to make these stats more balanced since Str is the be all end all of combat. We could do a split and make str melee and dex ranged...But most people are gonna be using guns the whole time because  why not? Why fight the giant flesh blob with your fists when a gun is available and can be effective outside the flesh blob's range of beating you to death.

What I should probably do is tie dex directly to movement speed.  I could theoretically add in dodging with it, but that would massively extend combat times. Because you would then have a roll to hit, it has a roll to dodge, and already if you're both at 10 in the respective stats the chances of actually doing damage are 25%.

Anyways, back to adding more items and further explaining others

Tie hp to strength and use strength to determine the size of weapon one is capable of using.  make the categories: light, normal, and heavy, and give dmage modifiers for each. thus, strength remains useful, and dex as well. that or provide some kind of defense against ranged weapons that requires, or at least makes useful, direct melee attacks.

Just ...

Just try not to do that "Phantom Menace" Style.  Primitive combat doesn't scale into tier 4 civs well.

Strength cold also be used to determine things like fatigue, which wold make shots when tired less accurate. there are lots of ways to adjust it so it isn't all one or the other, but most of them seem to be "make both necessary for the same actions."

[Pancaek]

Not that I've been following everything that's been added, but wasn't the point of the new system to have less work for pw? It looks like there's an awful lot of crunch getting thrown in.

[Ozarck]

Not that I've been following everything that's been added, but wasn't the point of the new system to have less work for pw? It looks like there's an awful lot of crunch getting thrown in.

I'm tossing out ideas. a good point though. the trick is to balance the stats without overcomplicating things. but I think most of the changes have been in the items category. Frankly, I think most of that could wait until the stats get figured out. shouldn't be as hard as that - three stats, yo. rock paper scissors. Something.

[Pancaek]

has something defensive been added yet, action/stat wise?

When I managed to get into one of the tests a few days ago I wasn't really keen on the fact that if the enemy got to attack, he only had to roll his own attack score and there was nothing from the player's side that influenced things. No way to block or evade or what have you.

Also that once you take damage to your strength you need to roll a save or your immediatly out. That tehcnically means that someone with 18 str can take 1 point of str damage, miss his saving throw and be completely out of the rest of the fight, which just seems silly to me. Especially because both players and enemies can move and attack in the same turn, meaning you never really get out of their range.

[chaotic skies]

You could do it like a table top game I remember. You have four stats-Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Faith. Dexterity decides movement speed and rolls for if you hit an enemy, dodged an attack, climbed a wall, etc., Strength decides whether or not you can pick up heavy objects, wield large weapons, use bows with a high draw weight, etc., and rolls for damage with melee weapons, Intelligence decides if you understand complex things and rolls if you solved a puzzle, convinced someone of something, learned a new move or spell, etc., and Faith rolls for things like surviving falls, divine intervention, etc. Basically anything the first three don't cover, generally ends up under Faith. While that was a medieval fantasy game, the system could probably be applied here with some changes.

[syvarris]

Tying movement speed to dex is a bad idea.  Firstly, it makes it so that everything must be on a board of some kind, with precise measuring that actually matters.  That's only a little bit of extra complexity in Roll20, but it would be very inconvienent for PbP, as you'd need to post a map and be very clear about how movement works.  Also, if a player has very high dex and a ranged weapon, they could pretty much become immune to low speed enemies given enough room.  Shoot, run thirty five feet back.  Monster chases thirty feet after you.  Repeat.  Wouldn't be completely OP, as some monsters are smart, but those entrance hall zombies that Julian killed?  They seemed pretty stupid.

I already sent you the Oro system modification thing, which made dex more valuable in some cases, but for something applicable to NuER, how about a dodge action?  You can choose to not attack, and instead just dodge.  If you successfully make a save action, the next otherwise-successful attack doesn't hit you.  Since you have to forgo an attack, it isn't OP, but it also doesn't require a special formula to calculate success, and is being rolled instead of an attack, so it doesn't even add bloat!

Alternatively, or additionally, let people take two movement actions instead of a move and attack, if they pass a dex save.  Again, no added rolls since they're forgoing an attack, and it could be quite useful for kiting.


Edit: Pan has a fair point about adding in crunch.  Adding die sizes to ambush/impaired calculations means that you'd either need to look at a table whenever someone attacks under those circumstances, or list both values next to normal damage on character sheets, for easy reference.  Could be better to just go with the traditional RPG standard, and double/halve damage.  The only problem with that is very high damage stuff like Julian's 5d6 psi damage, which does an average of 17.5 damage, which means it would still one shot basically anything on an ambush...  Could just cap psi damage.  Or make it d6->d8->d10->d12->d20 d14, 'cause why the hell should we limit ourselves in this age?.

[piecewise]

Added landmine (Like a grenade, but triggered by stepping on. Can be placed without a roll)

Added Spear trap (like a bear trap but does str damage.)

Berserk drug added (greatly boosts melee damage and makes you immune to critical injury while it is active. OD causes insanity. Short lived drug with a nasty crash)

Kinetic dampening Skin suit.

has something defensive been added yet, action/stat wise?

When I managed to get into one of the tests a few days ago I wasn't really keen on the fact that if the enemy got to attack, he only had to roll his own attack score and there was nothing from the player's side that influenced things. No way to block or evade or what have you.

Also that once you take damage to your strength you need to roll a save or your immediatly out. That tehcnically means that someone with 18 str can take 1 point of str damage, miss his saving throw and be completely out of the rest of the fight, which just seems silly to me. Especially because both players and enemies can move and attack in the same turn, meaning you never really get out of their range.

The trade off there is that you also only need to roll your own strength to deal damage. Thats the thing about it, you have no defensive option but neither does the enemy. HP, armor, traps, item uses, drugs, shield, all these things are designed to be used as a method of protecting yourself and forestalling true damage. Not to mention things like using cover or setting up situations can get you bonuses and reduce damage able to be dealt to you.

My fear is this; We could make it so that you do a dex roll to dodge damage, but then that at least doubles the length of combat if not more. We could make it so that your attack is only successful of you roll lower than both your str score and 20 minus your opponent's dex score (eg, opponent has dex score of 14, so you need to roll 20-14 = 6, lower than 6.) Which would make it so that we only have 1 roll but it would still lengthen combat time by a great deal. Not to mention you also end up making dex pretty op because people will just roll for max dex, put a ton of points in acrobatics and then never get hit.  And what happens when we get a High dex vs a high dex? Missed attacks for 20 turns.

I think my feeling with the game is that when it comes to defense, you don't have some specific stat or roll dedicated to it, but that you have a lot of things available to make killing you harder, you just have to be smart and use them effectively

The thing about being 18 str and being knocked out by 1 point of damage is legit. I think I'll change it so you only need to do critical injury rolls if your stat is 10 or less.

Tying movement speed to dex is a bad idea.  Firstly, it makes it so that everything must be on a board of some kind, with precise measuring that actually matters.  That's only a little bit of extra complexity in Roll20, but it would be very inconvienent for PbP, as you'd need to post a map and be very clear about how movement works.  Also, if a player has very high dex and a ranged weapon, they could pretty much become immune to low speed enemies given enough room.  Shoot, run thirty five feet back.  Monster chases thirty feet after you.  Repeat.  Wouldn't be completely OP, as some monsters are smart, but those entrance hall zombies that Julian killed?  They seemed pretty stupid.

I already sent you the Oro system modification thing, which made dex more valuable in some cases, but for something applicable to NuER, how about a dodge action?  You can choose to not attack, and instead just dodge.  If you successfully make a save action, the next otherwise-successful attack doesn't hit you.  Since you have to forgo an attack, it isn't OP, but it also doesn't require a special formula to calculate success, and is being rolled instead of an attack, so it doesn't even add bloat!

Alternatively, or additionally, let people take two movement actions instead of a move and attack, if they pass a dex save.  Again, no added rolls since they're forgoing an attack, and it could be quite useful for kiting.

That does actually make sense. I'm ok with purely defensive actions so long as they aren't automatic.

Though dodge should really only work against melee and not someone shooting at you. The defense against someone shooting at you is cover.

[Pancaek]

The trade off there is that you also only need to roll your own strength to deal damage. Thats the thing about it, you have no defensive option but neither does the enemy. HP, armor, traps, item uses, drugs, shield, all these things are designed to be used as a method of protecting yourself and forestalling true damage. Not to mention things like using cover or setting up situations can get you bonuses and reduce damage able to be dealt to you.

My fear is this; We could make it so that you do a dex roll to dodge damage, but then that at least doubles the length of combat if not more. We could make it so that your attack is only successful of you roll lower than both your str score and 20 minus your opponent's dex score (eg, opponent has dex score of 14, so you need to roll 20-14 = 6, lower than 6.) Which would make it so that we only have 1 roll but it would still lengthen combat time by a great deal. Not to mention you also end up making dex pretty op because people will just roll for max dex, put a ton of points in acrobatics and then never get hit.  And what happens when we get a High dex vs a high dex? Missed attacks for 20 turns.

I think my feeling with the game is that when it comes to defense, you don't have some specific stat or roll dedicated to it, but that you have a lot of things available to make killing you harder, you just have to be smart and use them effectively

The thing about being 18 str and being knocked out by 1 point of damage is legit. I think I'll change it so you only need to do critical injury rolls if your stat is 10 or less.

Fair enough. I'm happy that you're thinking about changing the critical rolls and allowing for defensive actions. Though if we're going by random 3d6 for stats 10 is maybe a bit early. Maybe at like 8 strength or something?

I don't know, I'm just throwing things out there. So long as you the critical rolls get a little bit less brutal I think combat will get a bit more fair, and people will also be slightly more daring when they have some leeway.