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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO  (Read 2533835 times)

piecewise

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30495 on: May 14, 2016, 10:30:34 am »

With this many people at this High of a level, with all this tech that counters everything, I don't know if I can make anything good. Because even if I make something challenging to one group they can just call in someone else.  Like the speeches they used this last round of rescues. People are complaining about a lack of challenge but then they're using +4 char to kill any aggression before it can become a challenge.

The only way I can make things interesting is by putting you in weird places that can ignore advantages. And I can't really do that here in these missions.

The game is so wildly unbalanced and people so numerous that I can't even make the situations interesting because they always bog down in the number of actions and the lack of description.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30496 on: May 14, 2016, 10:39:51 am »

Oh hey look someone from the local military panicked and used his amp a tad bit too much, now the lurker is coming in, leading to strange electromagnetic effects hampering any communications and leading to some really weird effects, damn now we need to try and evacuate people in the middle of the world burning around them and chaos reigning supreme. Also all the enemy amp users are now possessed and running amok causing a bad day for all, and PC's with amps in their head aren't having a field day either. Oh and there was an amp specialist deep inside the mountain protecting the command center, well shit now it's coming up and spawning eldritch abominations.

Or, as said, move on to the next mission, but plan it so that you can avoid running into these problems again. Spreading people out over different universes should keep them on their toes and cut of from mommy to hold their hand.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 10:41:48 am by Radio Controlled »
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piecewise

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30497 on: May 14, 2016, 11:30:51 am »

Oh hey look someone from the local military panicked and used his amp a tad bit too much, now the lurker is coming in, leading to strange electromagnetic effects hampering any communications and leading to some really weird effects, damn now we need to try and evacuate people in the middle of the world burning around them and chaos reigning supreme. Also all the enemy amp users are now possessed and running amok causing a bad day for all, and PC's with amps in their head aren't having a field day either. Oh and there was an amp specialist deep inside the mountain protecting the command center, well shit now it's coming up and spawning eldritch abominations.

Or, as said, move on to the next mission, but plan it so that you can avoid running into these problems again. Spreading people out over different universes should keep them on their toes and cut of from mommy to hold their hand.
People don't like amp specialists. And we've done that before already. Several times.

And my plan was to throw people into universes like that and now they're using sods and 20 layers of protection so they're never in any real danger except from exaggerated threat. It's an arms race between players finding new ways to game the system and me having to find new ways to counteract it.

And it's reaching the point where I feel like we're having a playground fight about how I can break their + infinity magic shield because my + infinity plus 3 magic sword can just do that so shut up.

I feel like with the newbies I might be able to do something good but with guys like HB and You and Pancaek I honestly can't think of anything that would be more than a mere annoyance unless I just start creating enemies that ignore most of your advantages, but then that sucks because you'd have spent tons of tokens on things that I'm just handwaving away as ineffective.

I'm half tempted to just say you guys should retire because you break the game to the point that anything I do with you is gonna be boring. It's part of the reason I want to end the game; because I think the first 5-10 missions we ever did were best and they've just been going downhill from there because of my inability to do shit with 60 people of wildly varying power in a stupidly badly set up system. 

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30498 on: May 14, 2016, 11:38:45 am »

Or maybe personal problems are just getting to me.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30499 on: May 14, 2016, 11:40:15 am »

You've done a pretty damn fine job of managing it while it lasted, but yeah there are definite issues to how the gaming system itself is set up that are kinda unavoidable in how it fundamentally works. It's why I stopped doing my powerhungry climb thing as Xan a while ago and switched to a more character-oriented set of goals.

I think this game's gonna get a good sendoff though. There are ways for it to happen still - and how many threads does this one mission have? Shit, that's more updates in a day than I do in literal years.

Or maybe personal problems are just getting to me.
Perhaps a bit of stress as well.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30500 on: May 14, 2016, 11:57:34 am »

I honestly don't think the supervets crushing everything is a bad thing. Some people may find it boring, but I like seeing and making fireworks for once without having to spend every turn in survival mode. As for the 20 layers of protection, I think that really can't be helped. We're dealing with stuff that has time and again been super dangerous/weird, so it's only natural that people are going to take as many precautions as they could. It's not so much that the stuff you're throwing at us isn't deadly enough, it's just that some people *cough*syv*cough* have gotten pretty damn good at defending themselves against it.

But yeah, characters have gotten too powerful for normal combat to really pose a significant threat without resorting to bullshit. Game's almost over though, so I don't think it's all that bad. Characters should be powerful at the end of a campaign, no?

Or maybe personal problems are just getting to me.
Like Xan said, your post does come off as angry/stressed a bit. Hakuna matata.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30501 on: May 14, 2016, 12:07:53 pm »

I honestly don't think the supervets crushing everything is a bad thing. Some people may find it boring, but I like seeing and making fireworks for once without having to spend every turn in survival mode. As for the 20 layers of protection, I think that really can't be helped. We're dealing with stuff that has time and again been super dangerous/weird, so it's only natural that people are going to take as many precautions as they could. It's not so much that the stuff you're throwing at us isn't deadly enough, it's just that some people *cough*syv*cough* have gotten pretty damn good at defending themselves against it.

But yeah, characters have gotten too powerful for normal combat to really pose a significant threat without resorting to bullshit. Game's almost over though, so I don't think it's all that bad. Characters should be powerful at the end of a campaign, no?

Or maybe personal problems are just getting to me.
Like Xan said, your post does come off as angry/stressed a bit. Hakuna matata.
It's not unexpected I just don't know how to make it fun for you guys.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30502 on: May 14, 2016, 12:16:59 pm »

I'm seeing this as a Fable 2 kinda ending. We've amassed power and the end boss isn't really anything we can't handle, but that merely allows us to enjoy the ride of our power through the epilogue. It would be more of a concern if the game wasn't ending, but since it is, the risk of getting bored due to lack of challenge is lesser. On the 20 layers of protection bit. Yeah it makes us pretty safe, but I'll pull up ff12 for this. It is only safer because we thought up the safeguards. Some of us have fun in thinking up babbies first AI priority list
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30503 on: May 14, 2016, 12:17:33 pm »

Quote
People don't like amp specialists. And we've done that before already. Several times.

And my plan was to throw people into universes like that and now they're using sods and 20 layers of protection so they're never in any real danger except from exaggerated threat. It's an arms race between players finding new ways to game the system and me having to find new ways to counteract it.

And it's reaching the point where I feel like we're having a playground fight about how I can break their + infinity magic shield because my + infinity plus 3 magic sword can just do that so shut up.

Well yeah, that's why this one is freaking out and warping spacetime as it goes. And suddenly your gauss rifle is a trout!

But seriously, I think I understand your M26 problem. On the other hand though, I also understand why those players do it like that: once you throw a few angry aliens gods at their face, can you blame them for doing things carefully? Honestly though, if you're at the point where you can't think of any more excuses to take away their toys, just tell them honestly that you're gonna put in some limitations for gameplay reasons. I'm sure that everybody would understand why you'd need to do it (though the mission itself might need some restructuring) if you're straightforward about it.

For example, have a timeskip and say that a bunch of universes were probed with their method, so now the only thing left to do is to personally go into new universes and work in there. No people staying back to just send over masses of probes to do all the work for them, no hordes of npc's to handle everything. If really needed, explain it as those resources being tied up 'elsewhere'.

And really, as said, not every challenge has to be a martial one, or even one where the character is in danger: if you were to tell me I need to set up shop in difficult environment A, that can still be challenging and difficult even if there's no slavering aliens to worry about. Where do we set up? How to get the materials we need? Should we probe there for a bigger deposit of rare minerals, or instead create more digging machines to excavate the small vein we already found? A dozen inches of ceramic shielding material and a massive sword won't help you figure out how to feed your colonists. I admit this kinda thing might not be everyone's cup of tea though.

Quote
I feel like with the newbies I might be able to do something good but with guys like HB and You and Pancaek I honestly can't think of anything that would be more than a mere annoyance unless I just start creating enemies that ignore most of your advantages, but then that sucks because you'd have spent tons of tokens on things that I'm just handwaving away as ineffective.
 I'm half tempted to just say you guys should retire because you break the game to the point that anything I do with you is gonna be boring. It's part of the reason I want to end the game; because I think the first 5-10 missions we ever did were best and they've just been going downhill from there because of my inability to do shit with 60 people of wildly varying power in a stupidly badly set up system.
I still stand by what I said in the past, that I'd be willing to stop playing missions and have Miya take on a supportive role, or to have him retire (for what little that might be worth) if you say that's what's needed. If it's for the good of the game, I'm up for whatever. I also kinda think you might be taking on too many players at once though. One can't increase quantity forever without losing some quality, and we're at frankly ridiculous numbers now.

Quote
Or maybe personal problems are just getting to me.

If you wanna take a break from ER for a while or do something different with it, don't feel bad about doing so. No matter how long you'd need or what you'd wanna do, I know we can wait it out or roll with it no sweat.
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21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30504 on: May 14, 2016, 12:20:40 pm »

+1 to the do whats best for you camp. We care about you Peedubs. Most of us will understand if you need a break
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30505 on: May 14, 2016, 12:26:24 pm »

I just want to make sure the players have fun and increasingly they seem bored or not sure what to do.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30506 on: May 14, 2016, 12:30:59 pm »

It's not unexpected I just don't know how to make it fun for you guys.
I'm having fun just seeing what comrade dimitri does when I tell him to act. And like Kedly said, we're at the end of the game, so I'm just enjoying my power at the end of it all and hoping for a neat epilogue. If the game were'nt ending I'd agree that we'd need a way to change how things are, but right now I don't feel like it's a detriment to the overall fun.

Or, like RC said, I'm up for putting Pan at the sidelines and getting a weaker character if you really don't like coming up with stuff for us to do because of our power level. I refuse to kill him off or not get an epilogue for him though, because he's survived enough shit that he deserves it.

Whatever makes you happy, peedubs. I just think you shouldn't worry too much about challenge and balancing ER, since it's almost over anyway.

=fakedit: a new reply has been posted=
I just want to make sure the players have fun and increasingly they seem bored or not sure what to do.
I can't speak for the other missions, but ours seems fine. Maybe put some non-combat stuff in there? Just some throwaway npc's to converse/play with/mangle/wear their skin as a poncho, a box of shiny stuff to play around with or something like that. War is like 10% combat and 90% faffing about, after all.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30507 on: May 14, 2016, 12:39:55 pm »

I just want to make sure the players have fun and increasingly they seem bored or not sure what to do.

I had fun ordering around the small and weak under threat of death, myself.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30508 on: May 14, 2016, 01:16:21 pm »

:(

I'm sorry for being one of the largest problems, at least on M26.  As others have said, building the infinity+1 shield is just natural to me, and is actually fun besides.  I didn't mean to lower the overall quality of the gameplay, and I'm perfectly fine with limiting myself to improve it.

In case it's any consolation, I've been enjoying M26.  Even the alien god, while excessive, has been fun--I'm just worried about failing and ending the entire mission for everyone.  I think other people have been having fun, at least with the universe explorations.  We don't really need to be in danger of death to have fun, because thinking of how to deal with each universe, and then implementing plans, is actually enjoyable.  At least for me, and I think some other people in M26.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #30509 on: May 14, 2016, 01:19:28 pm »

The reason why M26 can do multiple layers of protection is because they have infinite resources and workforce. Take those away and safeguards will crumble down sooner or later. And latest evacuation area seemed more challenging until someone asked assistance from propaganda master on another planet. Then it was just nice ride along.

Limited resources create a challenge and require creativity to solve, that's where most fun parts came originally from, or so I think. Nowadays we have too much free stuff. And if we can't get something, then we just need to ask someone who can get things done (propaganda master).
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