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[spazyak]

Honestly, I just love the ER universe and its lore. I also recognize the amount of work you put into it and if you wish to implement new rules to make it easier for you I support that fully. I just kinda want to continue to explore the ER world, especially now that we have opened a whole new can o' worms.

[Pancaek]

Well, I'm actually on both sides of the poll. There's not much to say about the continuation of ER option. We've had fun these last few years and more of the same kind of thing would be nice. I think I'd be most interested in that option since we might see what our decisions in ER meant for the future and how our characters are or are not remembered.

That said, I don't think I'd mind any of the other settings. I'm somewhat unclear if they will have the same lasting appeal for me as ER has, or if I'll end up like in infinite heavens where I get turned into fruit and then lose interest. Though, to be fair, that was mostly because of the waitlist.

I'm fine either way, so long as I don't have to either do nothing for months on end. Though, I have to say, personally I don't like really high death games. If you need to make a character only to almost certainly die in your first few turns/floors/whatever, repeat forever, I think I wouldn't be able to get invested as well.

[syvarris]

Yeeeah, now I actively dislike Oroboropolis.  With only a single five to seven player mission at a time, there will be a *lot* of inactivity.  We've currently got slightly over fifty players, and though a lot of them are slow/semi inactive, they were all available when the mission started and would therefore be able to enter themselves into the random participation drawing.

Now, with fifty players it would take seven missions to cycle through most people, so the vast majority of players would just leave, because few people are gonna wait over a year just to get in a single mission.  I imagine we'd end up with a core group of players, plus there'd always be some number of transitory drifters, so twenty sounds like a likely number.  That's only three mission cycles to let everyone participate.

Still, that's pretty different from ER.  Here, basically everyone gets to participate.  At most, you might have to wait a single mission cycle if you missed a mission's signup.  Even if not, you can participate in on-ship, which is handled very similarly to a mission, and has many options for you like Tinker--but Oro won't have that.  The on-ship equivalent will be self-governed without PW being involved, so it's basically like us just RPing in a thread with little to no actual effect.  Even if we used Corsair's idea, they'd probably only get a couple rolls in each mission cycle, rolling to see if they found anything over the last couple months.

I like ER in large part because of the community we've got.  Oroboropolis would see a large portion of that community just disappear overnight--Pancaek's already said he would.  A lot of our chronically disappeared  (but still semi-active) people, like Cael, Irony, Grunhill--they'd all probably disappear permanently.  And, on course, this game wouldn't be at all welcoming to newbies because once they found it they would be almost guaranteed to wait months before getting to play, due to the random drawing.  I suppose that's a silver lining; more people would quit than join, so as the game went on dedicated individuals like myself would be all that remain, which due to our rarity would mean we'd play with some frequency, at least.


Still, I'd really prefer either of the other games.  MMWW would, of course, let everyone be involved at once.  Everyone would be able to play.  I could see homunculus going either way, but at least it isn't guaranteed to have super strict limits on playercount like Oro.


Semi-related: Every time I check the poll "connection to ER" has exactly one more vote than "no connection to ER".  The only time it was different was when I voted.  I'd think that there wouldn't be such an absurdly clean split in the polls, and I'd think they wouldn't vote in such a clean, organized pattern.  Can Radio see the voters' accounts/IPs and vote times, or are we just trusting the fairness of everyone who can access the poll?

[Pancaek]

MMWW also has some problems for me personally, mostly the fact that it seems like we're supposed to form factions and war against eachother. I just don't enjoy pvp all that much. PW also mentioned doing some parts of it over IRC, which has all of my hate, since !!TIMEZONES!! will mean I will almost never get to participate in those.

I'm not saying I'd dissapear if I wasn't on mission, so long as there's something meaningful to do off mission. But as Syv said, with our long mission cycles the off-mission time could be a problem.

[Kedly]

It kind of sounded to me like Oro would have a team of 7 that would get an early ER level of detail and update pace, who would be going on missions, and everyone else who would hang out in the cities that got a more abstracted and less frequent set of updates summing up how all our actions kept the city going

I will also say that the ER community is a big part of ER's appeal to me. Losing some of it would be a sad

[syvarris]

@Pancaek
I don't know about people now but back when we were first wanting to play MMWW ^{_{almost three years ago ;-;}} most people had agreed to separate from the NPC gangs and form our own player gang.  Even if not everyone did that, we'd probably have a large numbers advantage, and could simply point out that the big gang with a lot of players contains all the people who want to avoid PvP.  Most people would probably not attack the big powerful group which say they won't kill them otherwise, so those who don't like PvP could just join that gang.  Other players who do want to PvP can join other groups, and then PvP players who also joined other groups.

@Kedly
That sums it up, though the average team size would likely be six.  The mission people would also getting a much faster than ER level of detail and update pace, but everyone else would be getting very little.  PW has pretty much said they'd be self-governed, which means almost completely isolated from the GM and effectively not in the game.  The "on-ship" equivalent would be comparable to an RP thread which waitlisters can post in, but not actually achieve anything in.

Even if it did end up being more than that, I'd be quite surprised if people got more than one PW post per mission cycle.  That post rolls a couple dice for everyone, to decide if people accomplished anything over the last few months.  And then, if you didn't get selected for the mission, you have to wait a couple months (probably not an ER length eighteen months, at least) to get another turn.

[AoshimaMichio]

That sums it up, though the average team size would likely be six.  The mission people would also getting a much faster than ER level of detail and update pace, but everyone else would be getting very little.  PW has pretty much said they'd be self-governed, which means almost completely isolated from the GM and effectively not in the game.  The "on-ship" equivalent would be comparable to an RP thread which waitlisters can post in, but not actually achieve anything in.

That's basically the point. A small group of people who can get dedicated attention from GM. And more than single sentence descriptions we are currently getting most of the time. And frequent updates, most likely daily. And the "core team" gets eventually killed off so there will be openings for new people.

[Kedly]

If the city players in Oro got current ER level of updates, aka 2-3 times a week. I could see trying to keep a city going in a competely hostile environment being kind of fun. I might personally take that over going on missions personally

[Unholy_Pariah]

to be perfectly frank none of the new games interest me much, id rather just have ER start fresh in the new universe without all our fancy toys.

MMWW strikes me as more of a suggestion game with the whole faction setup, which kills my interest completely.

ignoring the wait times to even go on a mission in oroboropolis, the lack of character permanence makes trying to level a character pointless.
if im just gonna die because game mechanics I dont really see a point in playing, if im gonna die it should be brought about by my own stupidity or that of my teammates.

and the homonculus sandbox one, whilst quirky and somewhat intriguing, it runs the very high risk of becoming an aimless wandering simulator.

not saying piecewise wont make them into good games, they just cant compete with ER...

[AoshimaMichio]

not saying piecewise wont make them into good games, they just cant compete with ER...

They certainly can't if nobody gives them any chance in first place.

[kj1225]

TBH I think I like MMWW best because of my hobby of punching wizards, but I don't see it happening so I'm going with my second favorite choice.

[syvarris]

@Ao
Yeah, but do you want to wait months to slip into one of those openings?  This game is supposed to replace ER, be PW's next big project.  He's offering us the choice of a game which allows everyone to play, or a game which allows only a couple of people to play.  I don't think he personally would refuse the former option (else he wouldn't have given it to us), so he's essentially asking us which we want more: A game which everyone can participate in (but which is zoomed out), or a game which only five people can participate in (but which has detail equivalent to Einsteinian Roulette Mission 1).

I'm assuming more people are in the former camp, partially because most people only get to play if they're in that camp, but also partially because the big, notable thing about Einsteinian Roulette is the high player count.  Let's be honest--people aren't here because of PW's great DMing and wonderful world--though those help--but because they can play with fifty other people in the same game.  There's lots of RTDs out there that have a similar playercount to Oro, and a similar level of detail.  There's no other RTD the size of ER, though.  Why would we get rid of that?

@Kedly
...Have you not been paying attention?  Why do you think the city people would be getting updates anywhere near as frequently as the on-ship tnread?  The entire point of Oro is to restrict PW's workload so that he can put more detail into the actual mission.  Having to deal with the faffing about of forty other people is completely opposed to that goal.

@Unholy
Sadly, you seem to be in the minority.  Almost nobody voted for an ER-like game--it's an option between something completely non-ERlike with bits of lore connected to ER (and we don't even know what that something is), or one of those three games.

@NINJAS
FOUR OF YOU.  WHY.

[Lenglon]

I voted ER lore related. I voted that way because I want Lyra's story to continue. I dont have any attachment to the gameplay itself.

MMW i actively dislike because ive seen how civ management games go and like running a character instead of a culture.

homonculus is interesting but not really my thing.

oro sounds like a ton of fun and i dont mind the playerlist shrinking anyway. ER is kinda majorly bloated. ill be fine with waiting for quality instead of constantly getting quantity. same reason that i play Roll to Medium which updates less than once a month. Oroboros-type gameplay is what im after and the setting seems interesting. so... yeah.

[NJW2000]

Homonculus doesn't seem to have been explained as much as the others. Apart from the base mechanics, does anyone have any idea at all how it could run?

Or could you give more detail if possible, Piecewise?

[syvarris]

@Lenglon +@Unholy because he had a similar complaint
It's not a civ management game.  You still get your own characters, and can choose what said characters do.  Yes, there would be elements of playing a culture, and elements of a suggestion game, but you'd have your own character.  If you wanted to, there'd be nothing stopping you from completely going your own way and staying a free agent, unattached to any faction.

Lenglon, I'd think if your priority is quality then you'd prefer MMWW.  There's two ways PW might run it--high detail with one full update per week, or low detail with frequent updates.  The former option would have more quality gameplay than Oro, because with Oro you spend the vast majority of the time doing nothing, and only get quality updates if you're lucky enough to get on a mission.  Plus, I could very easily see player politics getting into Oro if we seriously tried to pursue the heart; Leaders wouldn't want weak or semi-inactive people going on missions, because they'll only get corrupted and become enemies, making other people's jobs harder.  If literally any system aside from straight random draw were used, there would be "golden" people who would preferentially get chosen for missions, to ensure they don't fail.  Hell, even with a random draw, I could see something similar happening where vets team up with vets and share equipment between each other, but don't share equipment with newbies because they might lose it.