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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO  (Read 2522466 times)

Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29085 on: March 01, 2016, 12:33:51 am »

Most places there's a niche for non-hats. Because they're useful for pretty much everything.

Really?  Because the advantage for not having a hat is 'you fail a lot'.
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kj1225

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29086 on: March 01, 2016, 12:34:53 am »

Yeah, but you're a hero when the hat people need is out of commission.
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Lenglon

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29087 on: March 01, 2016, 12:39:11 am »

Dev... Well, I kinda prefer you disliking postER, since that's another vote for a different game and therefore a step closer to MMWW, but aren't you jumping to conclusions a bit?  Yes, the two characters mentioned in that quote are quite hatty, but that doesn't mean only hatty characters will work.

Perhaps.  Still though, can you name a situation where hatty characters exist and you didn't need a hat to be successful?  It's either hats or no hats, and 'humanity is weird' is definately a hat situation.
Currently in M27 Lyra is essentially useless because of her unique properties. A generic character is MUCH better for what we're doing right now.
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Xantalos

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29088 on: March 01, 2016, 12:40:40 am »

What would you mean as a hat? Like would you say that ... Flint's a character with a (non-literal) hat, statswise? Because I admit that Xan's a hatted character, thoroughly. In nearly every skill he isn't specializing in he has a minus, he's specialized towards pretty much a singular end goal and has been nearly ever since I developed his character beyond 'generic crazy evil fucker'.

But if you take someone like Flint, who to my knowledge has no maluses to any of his stats, would you say he's a character with a hat? He could probably do nearly anything in the game with at least an okay degree of success, but unless I'm reading you wrong you seem to be railing against specialization as a concept, and are more in favour of player creativity being the primary factor in how successful you are?
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Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29089 on: March 01, 2016, 12:42:00 am »

Currently in M27 Lyra is essentially useless because of her unique properties. A generic character is MUCH better for what we're doing right now.

Did you go on a diplomacy mission with a character who can't talk again?
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Yoink

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29090 on: March 01, 2016, 12:43:46 am »

Is MMWW confirmed as what will happen if PW goes with the 'completely new, unrelated game' option?

Edit: Holy carp my last IC post was a jumbled mess. This is what happens when I post actions whilst half asleep...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:45:52 am by Yoink »
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Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29091 on: March 01, 2016, 12:46:10 am »

But if you take someone like Flint, who to my knowledge has no maluses to any of his stats, would you say he's a character with a hat? He could probably do nearly anything in the game with at least an okay degree of success, but unless I'm reading you wrong you seem to be railing against specialization as a concept, and are more in favour of player creativity being the primary factor in how successful you are?

That's kinda it.  There's also the need to take several times as much equipment.  Flint's had a ton of levels and has a ton of equipment, along with stuff unique to him.
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Xantalos

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29092 on: March 01, 2016, 01:02:24 am »

Currently in M27 Lyra is essentially useless because of her unique properties. A generic character is MUCH better for what we're doing right now.

Did you go on a diplomacy mission with a character who can't talk again?
I don't know that M27's a diplo mission, but given that Lyra's highly specialized for scouting, information gathering, and perhaps assassinations if she were to level up Con a bit, and 27's a highly public mission about guarding portals and making sure large numbers of people don't do stupid shit, being sneaky and fragile isn't much help to her.

That's kinda it.  There's also the need to take several times as much equipment.  Flint's had a ton of levels and has a ton of equipment, along with stuff unique to him.
Well ... yeah, if you want to be able to do anything you have to have a lot of equipment to be that flexible. That's just one of those things that kinda makes sense to me. Perhaps you disagree?

Like, when amps were still around there was often claims of them being OP. I don't think this was necessarily because the basic one could let a starting character kill a battlesuit on a good roll, moreso because they were so unbelievably versatile. With a mass amp you could manipulate things without touching them, punch things with your mind, levitate yourself/others, throw things at people, block incoming fire, and so many other things. We never saw what a vector amp could do but I'd bet it would've gotten even more ridiculously versatile. This is why they were seen as OP, because they let one stat, heavily specialized in, substitute for basically any other stat with enough wiggling. Those were legitimate issues, and I can't really say that I'd advocate for something like that.

Maybe I'm not interpreting your stance right? Specialization isn't a bad thing, it has downsides. Remember what happened the last time Xan tried to do anything that wasn't medicining someone or running away from a potential danger? He died because he removed his helmet in space. So I spend most of my time sitting around waiting to be useful, or for an opportunity to use my skills to come up. It's just the consequence of the way I've built him, and I don't regret it. But being a generalist and being a specialist are in my mind about equal anyways - the generalist can do about anything else more competently than the specialist, the specialist is good enough at what s/he does that if they creatively apply their specialization they can get around obstacles anyhow.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, is what I'm saying. Specialization as a concept isn't a bad thing, I think.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29093 on: March 01, 2016, 02:06:35 am »

As of right now the "Some sort of follow up to ER which differs wildly from the old one, but still has some connection lore-wise to old ER." and the "Some completely different game, with no connection to ER whatsoever." options are tied.

25 people have voted so far, but I know we've got more out there.


A lot of people seem very up on MMWW, or whatever stupid thing I'll call it.  Doing that will stop Sy from throwing bricks through my window with "WHEN'S MMWW" writen on them every sunday, so thats a plus.

I got an idea: lets talk about the alternative games to "ER BEYOND"  and you guys can tell me what you think of them.  I also want to officially extend an offer: If we end up doing a completely new game, but people want to run their own ER beyond sort of game, I will write up a setting and give you my entire ER folder for use. And you can do whatever the hell you want with it from there. And then you can yell at me because the ER folder is nowhere near as expansive and wonderful as you think it is.


So, I've got 3 or so fairly good candidates for future games. They are, MMWW of course, A game called Oroboropolis, And a game called Homoculus.





MMWW is a game about a magical Apocalypse, where a world that is heavily reliant upon magic suddenly finds it lacking. And this magic is something that is natural in the world, so not only is the ability to do magic disappearing, but things like famine, disease, still birth and premature aging and death are becoming common.  The major difficulty is that to do that sort of thing with a lot of people. There are a few ways to do it; I could handle one faction a day, monday through friday, and then update the world on saturday for one full cycle a week. But that is slow as balls. Or we could do things from a more zoomed out perspective for a lot of it. Ie, a lot of the game would be less of you in your characters, and more of a strategic thing with your group, using your characters as what amount to resources. Sending them out on missions which complete in one turn over a series of a dozen or so rolls against various stats determined by the nature of the mission. And we'd only real character control when fights between players happened. And in that case we would more than likely do those sorts of things via IRC or some dedicated thread where things could get done faster and not grind the game to a halt. The simulation would not be super in depth, but things like recruiting units, managing food and water, your resources for your magic, that sort of thing, would be fairly easy to do.


Oroboropolis is a game that I've been testing bits and pieces out of using The Deep Infirmary. It would essentially be a combat/ exploration focused dungeon crawl sort of deal. The main idea here being that Oroboropolis, the living city of the damned, has crawled across the green glass plains and is reaching it's asphalt pseudopods out towards the Grand Holy, the bastion of faith and purity in the middle of an impure world. And you, as valiant urban crusaders, are tasked with the extremely simple goal of going into Oroboropolis and purging/exorcising/slaughtering any of the unclean, otherworldly, demonic things found in there and killing the old city once and for all.  You'll kill cockroach succubi with katanas and cast magic with blessed ghetto blasters and demonic cassettes.  Focused more on small groups, short experiences, quick deaths and an advancement system that inevitably results in high level characters becoming high level demons for later characters to fight.


Homunculus is a game based around player characters that are 3.5 inches tall. The game world is a bit high fantasy and weird but the general gist is that you are a created being designed to work a very specific job and now you have accidentally been set free from the enthrallment that kept you doing that job. You have sapience, you have self awareness and you have a big target on your head because you are effectively vermin in the eyes of the world.  The game is very much one of survival, though how you would choose to do it is up to you. The good part, or at least the different part is that you don't have a body like a normal human. You look human but you are a magical construct so your stats are spread across your entire body; ie losing a hand might make you lose points in INT.  The arrangement is random, so you choose the stats but not where they end up. You are also much harder to kill; so long as there is any original part of your body left, you are still alive. And you can replace parts of your body that you've lost with other things, which will have stats of their own that then become yours. Lose your arm? Replace it with the arm of a mummified mouse you find under the floorboards! Replace your severed head with a robin's skull! Replace your leg with a custom made metal limb! It's a thing.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29094 on: March 01, 2016, 02:12:39 am »

If I may ask, what exactly do you dislike about it?  Do you just dislike that sort of setting, or something else?

It's the "I'm special because I chose to be special" thing.  No effort or accomplisment.  Coming up with a good idea, but finding it useless because there's someone who does it a million times better or trumps it utterly because of a choice to be special.

If I want to do something, I'd have to make it my hat.  No room for a generalist, because everything weird and everyone's got to be special.
...Are you complaining that people that specialize in one thing are really good at that one thing?

I really have a hard time even understanding your criticisms sometimes Dev.  I honestly don't even know what you mean by this.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29095 on: March 01, 2016, 02:19:47 am »

A lot of people seem very up on MMWW, or whatever stupid thing I'll call it.  Doing that will stop Sy from throwing bricks through my window with "WHEN'S MMWW" writen on them every sunday, so thats a plus.
It's a lot like going to church for him.
Hrmmm, given a choice, I'd say either MMWW or Oroboropolis, leaning towards Oroboropolis, I'm fine with the idea of Homunculus, but I think I'd like the other two more.
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Xantalos

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29096 on: March 01, 2016, 03:01:44 am »

Oh god I like all of them. The idea of Oroboropolis appeals to me because I really like the 'he who fights monsters' cliche and slow transformations into abberations in both character and form is a thing I like to do. Homunculus is also appealing to me, but I do think it could have some lategame issues akin to ER - I can already envision players combining their bodies en mass to become super golems, a self-obsessed character finding a way to replicate himself and forming an independent colony in the sewers built entirely of himself, where even the buildings are just more of him in an architectural form, and other such shenanigans. When they start organizing themselves, essentially, it could turn odd.

MMWW seems like the best setting for a strategy game I've ever seen, truth be told, and one that I'd be happy doing a small group exploration thing through a la infinite heavens or something like what you've described.

I'm fairly sure I've said this before, but I'm happy with whatever you decide to go with, PW. The reason I'm interested in seeing post-evac ERverse is because I really like seeing the effects my actions have had on a world, and hopefully seeing characters I've controlled still acting and doing things. It makes me feel like I'm a part of it, and I'm interested in seeing how my efforts pay off in that sense.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29097 on: March 01, 2016, 03:18:55 am »

Hey pw, I can put up a second poll asking what alternative (out of those 3) people would prefer the most, either next to the one already up or after we close down that first one.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29098 on: March 01, 2016, 03:30:18 am »

...The idea of Oroboropolis appeals to me because I really like the 'he who fights monsters' cliche and slow transformations into abberations in both character and form is a thing I like to do...

Exactly my thoughts. A game where getting stronger is not good for anyone in long run. Especially if growth of strength is not static (as in survive one trip, gain 5 points) but changing randomly (as in survive one trip, gain 1d10 points). The point where player becomes enemy NPC shouldn't be static either but varying from person to person. One might survive ten trips, another transforms after two and half. Just to keep everyone on their toes.
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Xantalos

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #29099 on: March 01, 2016, 03:35:52 am »

Sort of like a cross between Tomb of Horrors , Darkest Dungeon, and Madoka Magicka may be a good way to describe it.
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