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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO  (Read 2522298 times)

Egan_BW

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28365 on: February 07, 2016, 11:43:36 pm »

Videogame AI will never be complete until they can start shittalking the player.
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syvarris

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28366 on: February 07, 2016, 11:51:19 pm »

Another reason why devs will never add good AI to their games.  Do you have any idea how skilled a good AI would be at shittalking?  Nobody would enjoy it when XCOM 4's AI hacked into their facebook account, and then started to use all that information to devise extremely hurtful personal attacks, all so that the player would forget to use their sniper's killzone ability, allowing the AI to flank their entire front line with a full squad.

Nunzillor

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28367 on: February 07, 2016, 11:53:18 pm »

Oh my god that would be glorious.  Not to play, but the LPs would be great.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 03:36:55 am by Nunzillor »
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AbstractTraitorHero

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28368 on: February 07, 2016, 11:54:32 pm »

"Get wrecked scrub no one will ever love you sorry jenny broke up with you it was for the best now go and die in a corner you piece of festering garbage you will never defeat my greatness just knowing of your existense sickens me if i could vomit i would continously go off yourself thank you sincerely Advanced futuristic videogame Ai"
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Empiricist

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28369 on: February 08, 2016, 12:20:26 am »

-snip-
I was talking more along the lines of it being somewhat impractical to have it control the enemies, rather than replacing the player seeing as it'd add to the resource costs of the development for something that can be done pretty convincingly without it anyway.
Another reason why devs will never add good AI to their games.  Do you have any idea how skilled a good AI would be at shittalking?  Nobody would enjoy it when XCOM 4's AI hacked into their facebook account, and then started to use all that information to devise extremely hurtful personal attacks, all so that the player would forget to use their sniper's killzone ability, allowing the AI to flank their entire front line with a full squad.
Oh my god that would be glorious.  Not to play, but the LPs would be great.
The other point is that we can just do that. Text processing is definitely something the field is very concerned with after all. You don't need to give the enemies any AI, just give the game an AI dedicated for shit-talking. Sure the enemies might still derp out a bit from time to time and will still be tactically inferior, but it won't matter if the player's huddled in a corner crying because of how badly it burned them.

Hell the only real new feature you'd really need to add to the enemy behavior would be a way for it to drag out a turn so it has more time to insult players, or a few maneuvers meant to taunt players on the verge of defeat.

*A unit wastes time walking around the last XCOM soldier to kill them via melee*
"And this is what it was like railing your mom last Sunday, right before her funeral! What's that? Too soon? Oh boo-hoo! Maybe if you weren't such a little bitch, Natalie wouldn't have dumped your sorry ass!"

Bonus points if the speech synthesizer used is made to sound like an alien commander.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:26:36 am by Empiricist »
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Toaster

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28370 on: February 08, 2016, 12:44:33 am »

...Mind control is certainly cheap, though.  I mean, seriously, how are you supposed to counter that?  Just run away?  Boring.  Only use soldiers with high will/will-increasing items?  Annoying, not strategic.

Besides the obvious "kill the controller" counter,
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Empiricist

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28371 on: February 08, 2016, 12:47:32 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Nunzillor

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28372 on: February 08, 2016, 04:21:51 am »

Can't wait until the first shit-talking mod comes out.  It'll probably work pretty poorly if it has to respond to text, I think.  But be great with the one-liners.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 06:13:16 am by Nunzillor »
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Parisbre56

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28373 on: February 08, 2016, 06:00:20 am »

I don't know, I like it when bots start taunting you in FPS games, shouting "loser" or "learn how to aim". I think it adds to the character of the game, especially if their voices and taunts match their character. I bet it will be as fun in Strategy games, assuming it is done right. If it's not done right, it will just end up as noise you'd simply ignore.

Fakeedit: Now that I think about it, C&C Generals did something like that and it was very fun.

Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28374 on: February 08, 2016, 11:18:23 am »

Very disappointed with undertale.  Would have been much better if pacifist run made you kill someone, and genocidal run had someone you couldn't kill.  Always like it when you are forced to confront your own philosophies.. but the game never makes you ask what you do when the easy answer doesn't work.

http://diggercomic.com/blog/2008/08/22/digger-533/

One of the greatest pieces of web fiction I've read was Digger, partly because it puts characters in difficult and dangerous situations that cannot be solved through philosophy.  It's deeply gripping to read characters who are in situations where they don't get what they want, and where goals may in fact simply be impossible, or where multiple driving forces come into conflict.  The interesting and fun situations are the ones where the easy answers are not possible.

That said, though, fiction like that is rare and precious.  Ones like Undertale, while good, are much more common, and I'm disappointed how rare it is to see protagonists put in situations where what you want is not possible.  I could tell, from the very first, that I would never be forced to make a choice between what I want and what would happen, which made the whole plot and conflict turn into so much meaningless fluff for me.
...Y'know, I think this is the first time I've ever seen honest criticism of Undertale which actually seems logical and valid.  Of course it's from you.  For your next trick, can you explain why A Song of Ice and Fire is sloppily written and low quality?

More seriously, don't you think that perhaps Undertale wouldn't actually be improved by such a thing, because it's not the type of thing most people enjoy?  I'm not saying it would--IMO, I agree with you, though I still haven't played the game--but just going on popular opinion I feel like you're a bit wrong.

Also, have you ever played Planescape: Torment?  I'd love to hear your opinion on it, largely because I have no idea what your opinion would be.  On one hand, it really fits your seeming desire for crushing depression, but on the other hand, technically things can end relatively well, and you aren't forced into failure if you have the right goal.

To be fair, Syv, my first exposure to it was from a person who thought it was exactly as I suggested.. a pacifist-run but one, and that came along with a very sincere and hearfelt love of the game.  Undertale is very good.  Wanting it to be something different, and being disappointed due to those expectations, is a product of context as much as it is anything else.

A good example of this was Patrick Rothfuss majorly changing his appreciation of Rendezvous with Rama upon discovering Clarke intended it to be a standalone work.  Rothfuss makes the entirely understandable and legitimate complaint, from the point of view of a storyteller par excellance, (and with his fine bibliography in particular) that the writer should know the secrets that aren't being told the reader.  Clarke, on the other hand, was a writer and a scientist.  To a scientist, having questions that you don't know the ultimate answers to, and advancements that consist of discovering better questions to be asking, is as natural as is breathing.  Neither of them is wrong, but it's as understandable as all get out.

Another thing like that was thinking that Into Darkness would be better if Kirk died and Khan got away, with a very strongly implied sequel hook right in it.  I think that could have been amazing, and it can't help but colour my opinion of the work as is.


Planescape: Torment is amazing.

If you want me to talk about ASoIaF, it'd be best to take it to PMs.  Could be some long conversations otherwise.
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Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28375 on: February 08, 2016, 11:28:03 am »

-snip-

You're far from wrong, Execute.  There's a few more things that could have been done that come to mind, though, such as including creatures that could one-shot you, and a fair amount of the challenge is challenge of apperance, where it looks much harder to complete your goal than it actually is.

Planescape: Torment is also the greatest game at making you feel like an evil asshole for being an evil asshole.  A few pages from that book would help, too.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:41:02 am by Devastator »
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28376 on: February 08, 2016, 11:33:54 am »

Ever play LISA: the Painful, Dev? I figure you might be able to appreciate some of its inevitability, although it assuredly has quite a few flaws as well.
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Parisbre56

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28377 on: February 08, 2016, 11:36:29 am »

...
See? Stasis catatonia has already claimed an entire team.

AbstractTraitorHero

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28378 on: February 08, 2016, 11:44:39 am »

Man someone needs to fix those stasis pods.
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Devastator

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO
« Reply #28379 on: February 08, 2016, 11:44:46 am »

Ever play LISA: the Painful, Dev? I figure you might be able to appreciate some of its inevitability, although it assuredly has quite a few flaws as well.

No, I haven't, actually.  Might check it out.  Lufia II is currently my high-point for low-points among 2D RPGs.
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