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[Radio Controlled]

Ah, but tell me pw: what prevented them from boobytrapping the random door... and the cockpit and the computer? That's why it doesn't make sense: if they wanted security, they would have set up multiple tripwires at all the locations where it mattered! And not just a random doorway. Because a gang of focussed pirates would then handily circumvent your entire system.

Well, it probably makes people nervous to set up even one tripwire linked to an entire nuclear arsenal, let alone hang out in the trapped location long enough to set up another one. I mean, imagine if you were part of the crew that had to do it. Would you try your luck with a couple more tripwires if you had the choice?

Also, it lulls people into a false sense of security.

Sure! Just set the nukes on a time-out, and once everything is in place, you activate them. Nukes aren't like sensitive explosives, they don't go off randomly if the people designing them had half a braincell.

As for that false sense of security, that only works in the specific case of the attackers both evading your other defenses, but also being willing to check every door after achievinv their main objectives. Rigging the braincase controller as a sort of deadman switch to the nukes, next to additional wires and triggers at the other vital systems works for every type of boarding event. It would also make the mission almost unwinnable, but that's not really an issue from an in-game standpoint.

And, imo, you've gotta allow some level of irrational decisions because this is a game. I'm sure he could have made the defenses damned near foolproof, but then you're just sending people off to their deaths with no chance of survival. Rigging "bonus" objectives is totally fair, but can you imagine if there were multiple kaboom switches on the way to the primary objective? The team wouldn't have stood a chance.

Sure, but that does make it very difficult for players to reason in-character and roleplay accordingly. That way lies munchkinnery!

[piecewise]

I dunno guys, seems like you made a rational decision trying to go in, though more caution might've been possible. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense to place that tripwire there, of all places, instead of at the pilot bridge or computer room. That's like buying a house alarm and placing it in a random cupboard, instead of at the front door or the vault with all the money. And there must've been something brainscrewy in there, unless reality bending from intu rolls goes that far (which would be kinda ridiculous).

Ah but you're not thinking with enough foresight Radio. Think about it like this: You're setting up this ship with the intent of preventing it from getting into the hands of both the fungus and anyone like us who would want to take it. You put in the robots as your first and obvious line of defense. But you have to assume that will be breached. And if that defense is breached, you have to assume that they're combat ready, so just throwing more guys at them won't help. So you program your computer to self destruct the ship if it runs out of options. But what if they destroy the computer? Hmm. Then they're probably knowledgeable about where it is located, since finding and getting to it while constantly being attacked would be very hard to do if just checking doors at random. So they've got the ship and disable the computer. What about a trap in the cockpit? No. They'd expect it and it would show your hand...

Ah, but what will they do once they believe they've taken the ship? They'll start searching all the rooms! Thats where we plant the traps.

And what exactly was reality bending about those intuition rolls? Those guys had 0's or -1's in their intuition. And they rolled bad. Hence the feeling of danger became out right horrible fear. And Pancaek got a 2. And the one guy who kinda succeeded felt something bad back there.

Getting freaked out isn't really bending reality is it?

Ah, but tell me pw: what prevented them from boobytrapping the random door... and the cockpit and the computer? That's why it doesn't make sense: if they wanted security, they would have set up multiple tripwires at all the locations where it mattered! And not just a random doorway. Because a gang of focussed pirates would then handily circumvent your entire system. Again, look at the example of a house with a vault carrying lots of cash:
-no security. Dumb, but I can see that happen.
-security at front door and the vault. Ok, makes sense.
-every cupboard and doorknob is wired. Paranoid, but sure.
-one random closet is wired, but nothing else. Not the places that matter, and would be the actual targets.

That's whats weird here. Not the tripwire on a random door, but a tripwire only on a random door.
Nor was the computer set to self destruct the nukes if it was breached, even though this shows they were clearly willing to sacrifice the ship. And the computer had to be smart enoug to recognise when it would be about to be compromised, if it could manage to control so many robots at a time. And if someone uses/disables your nukes before searching the rooms, it also fails.

I guess the intu roll is more arguable, but that's the nature of rolls in rtd I guess. Still, tossing yourself out an airlock screaming cause a door gives you a bad feeling isn't reality bending, but it sure is kinda, ah, nonstandard. But that's what you get when you employ former convicts with stasis dementia!

Because I knew you'd be expecting traps there. And a trap only works if you don't expect it.

And you assume it was only on that one door. No one got around to opening some of the other ones.

[Hapah]

They're open now!

[Dorsidwarf]

Wasn't the boobytrapped door the door to the main nuclear arsenal?

When I'm leaving enough nukes to wipe a continent off the map on an unmanned spacecraft for an indefinite amount of time, you can damn well be sure i'll be boobytrapping the arsenal.

[Pancaek]

I just hope we get picked up soon so we can go and get chewed out by Milno and move on to other things. I still want to make my piece of art, alas no longer out of parts of fallen enemies. I also need to get into contact with the doc again, for reasons.

[Harry Baldman]

Sure! Just set the nukes on a time-out, and once everything is in place, you activate them. Nukes aren't like sensitive explosives, they don't go off randomly if the people designing them had half a braincell.

As for that false sense of security, that only works in the specific case of the attackers both evading your other defenses, but also being willing to check every door after achievinv their main objectives. Rigging the braincase controller as a sort of deadman switch to the nukes, next to additional wires and triggers at the other vital systems works for every type of boarding event. It would also make the mission almost unwinnable, but that's not really an issue from an in-game standpoint.

Well, fair enough on the nuke setup.

Nevertheless, it was probably in the UWM's interest to preserve the ship if possible - so if someone gets to the computer, they don't wire the door so that maybe the robots get the looterpirates if they're not fast enough and the ship keeps recording observations when the people are killed and their corpses mopped up, if the computer can be bothered. And maybe they didn't count on somebody being quick (and synthfleshed) enough to just rip the braincase out of the computer before it could set off the self-destruct signal in the event of robot failure. They'd prolly try to hack it first, the rationale would go, and if robots get disabled or it looks like it's otherwise working, well, nuking time.

And the arsenal is probably a high-value spot, somewhere that looterpirates might be very interested in (as they would be in every room, being looterpirates - the Haebi, meanwhile, would spill into the arsenal eventually anyway), so it makes sense to tripwire that. Nukes are reasonably valuable as far as I'm aware.

[Radio Controlled]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I dunno guys, seems like you made a rational decision trying to go in, though more caution might've been possible. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense to place that tripwire there, of all places, instead of at the pilot bridge or computer room. That's like buying a house alarm and placing it in a random cupboard, instead of at the front door or the vault with all the money. And there must've been something brainscrewy in there, unless reality bending from intu rolls goes that far (which would be kinda ridiculous).

Ah but you're not thinking with enough foresight Radio. Think about it like this: You're setting up this ship with the intent of preventing it from getting into the hands of both the fungus and anyone like us who would want to take it. You put in the robots as your first and obvious line of defense. But you have to assume that will be breached. And if that defense is breached, you have to assume that they're combat ready, so just throwing more guys at them won't help. So you program your computer to self destruct the ship if it runs out of options. But what if they destroy the computer? Hmm. Then they're probably knowledgeable about where it is located, since finding and getting to it while constantly being attacked would be very hard to do if just checking doors at random. So they've got the ship and disable the computer. What about a trap in the cockpit? No. They'd expect it and it would show your hand...

Ah, but what will they do once they believe they've taken the ship? They'll start searching all the rooms! Thats where we plant the traps.

And what exactly was reality bending about those intuition rolls? Those guys had 0's or -1's in their intuition. And they rolled bad. Hence the feeling of danger became out right horrible fear. And Pancaek got a 2. And the one guy who kinda succeeded felt something bad back there.

Getting freaked out isn't really bending reality is it?

Ah, but tell me pw: what prevented them from boobytrapping the random door... and the cockpit and the computer? That's why it doesn't make sense: if they wanted security, they would have set up multiple tripwires at all the locations where it mattered! And not just a random doorway. Because a gang of focussed pirates would then handily circumvent your entire system. Again, look at the example of a house with a vault carrying lots of cash:
-no security. Dumb, but I can see that happen.
-security at front door and the vault. Ok, makes sense.
-every cupboard and doorknob is wired. Paranoid, but sure.
-one random closet is wired, but nothing else. Not the places that matter, and would be the actual targets.

That's whats weird here. Not the tripwire on a random door, but a tripwire only on a random door.
Nor was the computer set to self destruct the nukes if it was breached, even though this shows they were clearly willing to sacrifice the ship. And the computer had to be smart enoug to recognise when it would be about to be compromised, if it could manage to control so many robots at a time. And if someone uses/disables your nukes before searching the rooms, it also fails.

I guess the intu roll is more arguable, but that's the nature of rolls in rtd I guess. Still, tossing yourself out an airlock screaming cause a door gives you a bad feeling isn't reality bending, but it sure is kinda, ah, nonstandard. But that's what you get when you employ former convicts with stasis dementia!

Because I knew you'd be expecting traps there. And a trap only works if you don't expect it.

And you assume it was only on that one door. No one got around to opening some of the other ones.

Had any of the doors they just barged through been trapped, it'd also have worked. Like a charm, even. Like the door Faith opened with a kinamp. Or when she hacked apart the armor around the computer. Or the door to the computer hallway they sliced through sans checking for traps because there were robots hot on their tail.

Either way, it might make little sense in-universe, but what's done is done, and I do agree it makes more sense from an ooc perspective to do it like this (aka giving them a chance to win, while still making it possible for them to doom themselves). Bit it does give a lot of incentive to look at situations as "what would the gm try to pull on us, how would he design the mission" instead of "what does my character know, and how would he respond".

Sure! Just set the nukes on a time-out, and once everything is in place, you activate them. Nukes aren't like sensitive explosives, they don't go off randomly if the people designing them had half a braincell.

As for that false sense of security, that only works in the specific case of the attackers both evading your other defenses, but also being willing to check every door after achievinv their main objectives. Rigging the braincase controller as a sort of deadman switch to the nukes, next to additional wires and triggers at the other vital systems works for every type of boarding event. It would also make the mission almost unwinnable, but that's not really an issue from an in-game standpoint.

Well, fair enough on the nuke setup.

Nevertheless, it was probably in the UWM's interest to preserve the ship if possible - so if someone gets to the computer, they don't wire the door so that maybe the robots get the looterpirates if they're not fast enough and the ship keeps recording observations when the people are killed and their corpses mopped up, if the computer can be bothered. And maybe they didn't count on somebody being quick (and synthfleshed) enough to just rip the braincase out of the computer before it could set off the self-destruct signal in the event of robot failure. They'd prolly try to hack it first, the rationale would go, and if robots get disabled or it looks like it's otherwise working, well, nuking time.

And the arsenal is probably a high-value spot, somewhere that looterpirates might be very interested in (as they would be in every room, being looterpirates - the Haebi, meanwhile, would spill into the arsenal eventually anyway), so it makes sense to tripwire that. Nukes are reasonably valuable as far as I'm aware.

No need. You just set the nukes to explode if the computer stops giving a "hey I'm alive and kicking" signal for more than a couple seconds/minutes. That way, it'd be impossible to ever disable the robots without the ship self destructing. Then the only way to win is to hack the computer into thinking all is well, while keeping up the facade it might still come out on top while you are hacking (to prevent manual self destruct). A much more watertight system than tripping some random doors not even leading to truly vital areas.

[Harry Baldman]

No need. You just set the nukes to explode if the computer stops giving a "hey I'm alive and kicking" signal for more than a couple seconds/minutes.

I suppose that depends on if a braincase actually has a way of detecting if the brain inside it is alive. And it was a single brain - wonder if it ever sleeps, or for how long (and for that matter, how much are brains altered when they're made into wetware AIs). Maybe the technicians in question weren't cleared to do AI work.

Point is, I can recursively list somewhat dubious in-universe reasons I've pulled out of my ass for why the setup is what it is, but the fact of the matter is that this is a story, and so there must always be some measure of narrative causality at work. If there wasn't, and our obstacles were made up to spec and mostly foolproof, we'd probably be dead several times over. And also 70% of the time our missions would be just ordinary bullshit that someone confused for something exciting where we collectively sigh and cross another planet off the list after murdering around 200 civilians during the investigation and then blowing up part of the local army for good measure.

[Radio Controlled]

No need. You just set the nukes to explode if the computer stops giving a "hey I'm alive and kicking" signal for more than a couple seconds/minutes.

I suppose that depends on if a braincase actually has a way of detecting if the brain inside it is alive. And it was a single brain - wonder if it ever sleeps, or for how long (and for that matter, how much are brains altered when they're made into wetware AIs). Maybe the technicians in question weren't cleared to do AI work.

Point is, I can recursively list somewhat dubious in-universe reasons I've pulled out of my ass for why the setup is what it is, but the fact of the matter is that this is a story, and so there must always be some measure of narrative causality at work. If there wasn't, and our obstacles were made up to spec and mostly foolproof, we'd probably be dead several times over. And also 70% of the time our missions would be just ordinary bullshit that someone confused for something exciting where we collectively sigh and cross another planet off the list after murdering around 200 civilians during the investigation and then blowing up part of the local army for good measure.

No need even, can just make the nukes go off if anything abnormal happens to the signal it should constantly be getting. And I see no reason why one couldn't make something to check the status of a brain (hell, look at the current manip brains and that system). I'm sure one can always pull something out of the nether regions to explain it, but it'll be dubious and out of place either way.

Again, sure, I acknowledge it made sense from a game perspective to do it like this, I'm certainly not saying pw is a bad gm for this. I was just defending/rationalising their in-game decision by pointing out it doesn't make sense in-universe, and that stuff like this makes it harder to honestly roleplay and stick to one's character.


Or maybe I'm just salty cause Miya's life expectancy just went down into single digits, who knows 

[Harry Baldman]

Again, sure, I acknowledge it made sense from a game perspective to do it like this, I'm certainly not saying pw is a bad gm for this. I was just defending/rationalising their in-game decision by pointing out it doesn't make sense in-universe, and that stuff like this makes it harder to honestly roleplay and stick to one's character.


Or maybe I'm just salty cause Miya's life expectancy just went down into single digits, who knows 

Ah, but here's the thing - an ER that is fully consistent with its incredibly lethal lore during gameplay would be, as a consequence, incredibly lethal. And it's pretty hard to roleplay your character if missions aren't really survivable. On the other hand, making the UWM into proper hero-killers (with progressively dirtier tricks and crazier personnel to offset ARM's increasing technological advantage) would be pretty fun. This mission's already a pretty decent start on that, even if it does have its niggles to be picked at.

And don't think about it as a shortened life expectancy. Think of it as your last, best chance to show everyone what an Avatar really can do.

EDIT: Also!

Faith: Loses everything in their inventory, synthflesh body pretty much entirely destroyed, but brain survives uninjured.
Pancaek: Body survives much like Faith's, but his efforts with the amp, though saving him, end up giving him some brain damage

Is that a roundabout way of saying that Pancaek also lost his synthflesh, or a typo where it should have said "unlike"?

[piecewise]

Again, sure, I acknowledge it made sense from a game perspective to do it like this, I'm certainly not saying pw is a bad gm for this. I was just defending/rationalising their in-game decision by pointing out it doesn't make sense in-universe, and that stuff like this makes it harder to honestly roleplay and stick to one's character.


Or maybe I'm just salty cause Miya's life expectancy just went down into single digits, who knows 

Ah, but here's the thing - an ER that is fully consistent with its incredibly lethal lore during gameplay would be, as a consequence, incredibly lethal. And it's pretty hard to roleplay your character if missions aren't really survivable. On the other hand, making the UWM into proper hero-killers (with progressively dirtier tricks and crazier personnel to offset ARM's increasing technological advantage) would be pretty fun. This mission's already a pretty decent start on that, even if it does have its niggles to be picked at.

And don't think about it as a shortened life expectancy. Think of it as your last, best chance to show everyone what an Avatar really can do.

EDIT: Also!

Faith: Loses everything in their inventory, synthflesh body pretty much entirely destroyed, but brain survives uninjured.
Pancaek: Body survives much like Faith's, but his efforts with the amp, though saving him, end up giving him some brain damage

Is that a roundabout way of saying that Pancaek also lost his synthflesh, or a typo where it should have said "unlike"?

His body "survived" ie there's a burnt torso out there.

[Radio Controlled]

Again, sure, I acknowledge it made sense from a game perspective to do it like this, I'm certainly not saying pw is a bad gm for this. I was just defending/rationalising their in-game decision by pointing out it doesn't make sense in-universe, and that stuff like this makes it harder to honestly roleplay and stick to one's character.


Or maybe I'm just salty cause Miya's life expectancy just went down into single digits, who knows 

Ah, but here's the thing - an ER that is fully consistent with its incredibly lethal lore during gameplay would be, as a consequence, incredibly lethal. And it's pretty hard to roleplay your character if missions aren't really survivable. On the other hand, making the UWM into proper hero-killers (with progressively dirtier tricks to offset ARM's increasing technological advantage) would be pretty fun. This mission's already a pretty decent start on that, even if it does have its niggles to be picked at.

And don't think about it as a shortened life expectancy. Think of it as your last, best chance to show everyone what an Avatar really can do.

Well, it'd mean roleplaying lemmings for the slaughter like actual lemmings for the slaughter. That could be fun! But as I've said before (to dev, mostly), a much harder game playing everything 100% straight isn't neccesarily better. Might be a bit of a shame about the incentive for ooc, but it's not like we weren't doing that before as well anyway, so no big losses there. At least we can make them feel better about it!

And thank you, but I'd prefer to show that off when [REDACTED] happens with the [REDACTED] and the balloons.

[Pancaek]

His body "survived" ie there's a burnt torso out there.

Can I get a "reduced to torso" counter on my character page? This is the second time now and I feel a pattern emerging.

[NAV]

His body "survived" ie there's a burnt torso out there.

Can I get a "reduced to torso" counter on my character page? This is the second time now and I feel a pattern emerging.

Sure, why not?
I guess most of your inventory survived too, since it was in your gut of holding.

[Radio Controlled]

Well Lenglon, it seems you were right after all, unfortunately.

So, uh, good luck with all that!


You know, I wonder what that rescue team is gonna go do, since it took so much time to reach the planet for us the first time. Salvaging m19 shouldn't require a big team, more like a single shuttle and a big scoop in front. Or maybe a butterfly net.