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[Parisbre56]

That's the log. The highlighted part at 21:36:29 is the one I was talking about. Don't know if you guys came to some other conclusion later, but I took that to mean that this is how things are going to be from now on. And that since it is an internal/hidden game mechanic, one that is not needed to be made known to the players, it wasn't mentioned in the "official" armoury page.

Spoiler: Part 1 (click to show/hide)

[2015-03-31 19:55:48] *NickServ* You are now identified for Parisbre56.
[2015-03-31 19:55:49] -->| YOU (parisbre56_) have joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 19:55:49] =-= Topic for #einsteinianroulette is ``Beirus the Pimpsassin''
[2015-03-31 19:55:49] =-= Topic for #einsteinianroulette was set by Remalle!Variety@i2246816zi629tu21.vc.shawcable.net on Monday 30 March 2015 08:17:08 AM EEST
[2015-03-31 19:55:51] =-= YOU are now known as parisbre56
[2015-03-31 19:58:10] <Toaster> BEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
[2015-03-31 20:00:36] <Nikitian> BEEEES EVERYWHERE
[2015-03-31 20:04:20] <Radio_Controlled> Toaster confirmed for Nicholas Cage.
[2015-03-31 20:05:26] <Toaster> Was it all the cagey behavior?
[2015-03-31 20:06:49] <Radio_Controlled> That. Though the raging insanity also gave a hint in the right direction.
[2015-03-31 20:08:02] <Radio_Controlled> Hey, did lars sign up for the new missions?
[2015-03-31 20:08:32] <Toaster> There was talk of him being invited on the Joker mission
[2015-03-31 20:08:38] <Toaster> Waiting on that final determination
[2015-03-31 20:08:49] <Toaster> But yeah, likely to go
[2015-03-31 20:12:45] <Radio_Controlled> Ok, then Lars can convince the planet not to murder us.
[2015-03-31 20:12:53] <Radio_Controlled> he has that amp right?
[2015-03-31 20:13:04] <parisbre56> Hey, I was going to try that
[2015-03-31 20:13:25] <Radio_Controlled> hey paris
[2015-03-31 20:13:46] <parisbre56> actually asked piecewise about it, but IRC was flooded with pimp canes so he probably did not notice
[2015-03-31 20:13:48] <parisbre56> hey
[2015-03-31 20:13:50] <Radio_Controlled> You can work as a pair, like those mormons who go around converting.
[2015-03-31 20:14:34] <Toaster> Lars isn't currently specced to use his amp
[2015-03-31 20:14:39] <Toaster> So that's an issue
[2015-03-31 20:14:52] <Radio_Controlled> Well, if only we had something to fix that then.
[2015-03-31 20:15:03] <Radio_Controlled> Something to... respec him maybe?
[2015-03-31 20:15:10] <Radio_Controlled> If only we could.
[2015-03-31 20:15:11] <Toaster> Sure
[2015-03-31 20:15:18] <Toaster> Just hand me about ten more skill points
[2015-03-31 20:15:25] <parisbre56> Yeah, I too am not sure if I can get all the needed bonuses. +2 Aux, +2 Con, +2 Exo...
[2015-03-31 20:15:32] <Radio_Controlled> And if you have 10 tokens, free upgrade possible.
[2015-03-31 20:15:49] <parisbre56> Haven't tried respeccing yet
[2015-03-31 20:16:03] <parisbre56> Toaster: You have money, maybe you can buy a genemod?
[2015-03-31 20:16:08] [INFO] 1 matches for ``Toas'': [Toaster: ]
[2015-03-31 20:17:06] <Radio_Controlled> I'm doing thzt for uncon (/exo)
[2015-03-31 20:19:34] <Toaster> Also the Mind consolidation hurts since Lars has int as an in-character dump stat
[2015-03-31 20:20:01] <Radio_Controlled> then dump general knowledge instead.
[2015-03-31 20:20:09] <Toaster> Wrong int
[2015-03-31 20:20:24] <Nikitian> But Lars has to know about on-ship events! He's the chaplain, after all.
[2015-03-31 20:20:41] <Toaster> Yeah, I see dumping genknow as out of character for Lars
[2015-03-31 20:20:58] <Toaster> He's world-wise, and the zero intelligence represented a very rigid way of thinking
[2015-03-31 20:21:02] <Radio_Controlled> then intuition maybe?
[2015-03-31 20:21:15] <Nikitian> Religious insight
[2015-03-31 20:21:28] <Toaster> Intuition can **sort of** be replaced with Fate but I don't really want to dump that either
[2015-03-31 20:22:10] -->| SeanMirrsen (SeanMirrse@70-578-460-920.clients.tlt.433megabit.ru) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 20:23:38] <Toaster> There's always dumping Medical harder but then I might as well forget the amp entirely
[2015-03-31 20:24:52] <Nikitian> By the way, are the upgrade-genemods officially available, you say? Or only for high-ranking officials of ARM? I didn't see them announced yet in the Armory list drafts.
[2015-03-31 20:25:04] <Radio_Controlled> I'm probably dumping med and handi as well.
[2015-03-31 20:25:11] <Toaster> Bleh.  I can do it but I either have to give up +2 cha or +1 intu
[2015-03-31 20:25:39] <Toaster> Can't really dump any skill besides med
[2015-03-31 20:25:51] <Nikitian> Hmmm, what about Handi or Uncon?
[2015-03-31 20:26:16] <Radio_Controlled> Enhanced Capacity.  Token Cost: 10 Stat Restriction: None Incompatible with: Multiple versions of itself Description: Various total body modifications which increase the body's mastery of a particular Stat or skill. However, only one of these can be applied at a time, as the modifications are often mutually exclusive.
[2015-03-31 20:26:22] <Toaster> Dumping Handiwork is very OOC for Lars
[2015-03-31 20:26:57] <Toaster> Uncon... a bit OOC to dump; not terribly, but not something I'm hankering to do
[2015-03-31 20:27:26] <Nikitian> @RC Ah, my bad; wait, I take it only one ever can be taken, and even then only if you have positive End?
[2015-03-31 20:27:55] <Nikitian> @Toaster Yeah, I completely forgot about the pamphlets and the robe and all that
[2015-03-31 20:27:57] <Toaster> Does that give you +1 rank or count as five points spent in the skill?
[2015-03-31 20:28:12] <Nikitian> 10 points, IIRC; might be wrong
[2015-03-31 20:28:21] <Toaster> Hrm
[2015-03-31 20:28:28] <Toaster> Throwing that at Exo would work
[2015-03-31 20:28:44] <Toaster> Though I'm honestly considering just chucking the amp entirely
[2015-03-31 20:28:56] <Toaster> Don't even care if I get a full refund for it
[2015-03-31 20:29:27] <Toaster> You really need medical to get full use out of it, and Lars is IC negative there
[2015-03-31 20:29:51] <Toaster> (Lars was built with never raising medical or intelligence planned)
[2015-03-31 20:30:37] <SeanMirrsen> I'd really like to see if I can take that next experiment of Anton's anywhere. Using space magic to create something like more conventional techno-wizardry would probably cause all kinds of horrible fun.
[2015-03-31 20:30:58] <Toaster> Though I will say one thing... that electro amp looks like a pile of fun
[2015-03-31 20:32:36] <Toaster> Oh hey
[2015-03-31 20:32:42] <Toaster> Battlesuit needs +2 aux now
[2015-03-31 20:32:54] <parisbre56> Unfortunately, yes
[2015-03-31 20:33:10] <Toaster> So that means amp and battlesuit are mutually exclusive to me
[2015-03-31 20:33:35] <Radio_Controlled> go for battlesuit!
[2015-03-31 20:33:46] <Toaster> I would if I hadn't already bought the amp
[2015-03-31 20:33:55] <Radio_Controlled> You won't regret it.
[2015-03-31 20:34:01] <Toaster> I feel compelled to spec toward what Lars has already done
[2015-03-31 20:34:05] <Radio_Controlled> eh, can resell it for total value.
[2015-03-31 20:34:13] <Toaster> Oh I've wanted a battlesuit for many missions now d=
[2015-03-31 20:34:22] <Toaster> Total value of that amp = battlesuit cost
[2015-03-31 20:34:55] <Toaster> That would then leave every single token I had to trick it out
[2015-03-31 20:35:51] <Radio_Controlled> some of the prototypes up for testing are battlesuit-level stuff.
[2015-03-31 20:35:54] <Toaster> (Speaker system for preaching to faithful, shoulder-mounted chem dispenser, massive gun on the right, some hideous Nyars abomination on the left)
[2015-03-31 20:36:15] <Toaster> We need a centralized dump of all the changes
[2015-03-31 20:36:51] <Nikitian> Huh, then maybe wait for an assaultsuit instead of the battlesuit?
[2015-03-31 20:36:53] <Radio_Controlled> New wiki page?
[2015-03-31 20:37:00] <Toaster> Wouldn't be a bad idea
[2015-03-31 20:37:21] <Toaster> Stat changes, skill changes, armory overhaul... it's getting a bit much to track
[2015-03-31 20:37:44] <Toaster> Are the assault suit specs on the wiki?
[2015-03-31 20:38:20] <Radio_Controlled> not yet I think.
[2015-03-31 20:41:11] <Radio_Controlled> could check hep thread.
[2015-03-31 20:41:38] <Radio_Controlled> go spelunking down that dark abyss.
[2015-03-31 20:41:59] <Toaster> It doesn't help that the main and OOC hep threads have a very hazy line between them
[2015-03-31 20:42:05] <Toaster> Simus needs to crack that whip
[2015-03-31 20:42:10] <Toaster> *crack*
[2015-03-31 20:42:38] <Toaster> Speaking of aux
[2015-03-31 20:42:43] <Radio_Controlled> she's waiting for maurice to use her whip.
[2015-03-31 20:42:45] <Toaster> +2 aux for the gunner bot?
[2015-03-31 20:42:46] -->| Doomblade (Mibbit@uzgo-119-731-638-19.lawn.gatech.edu) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 20:43:03] <Radio_Controlled> Seems so, yeah.
[2015-03-31 20:43:06] <Toaster> I guess since it's actually pretty strong
[2015-03-31 20:43:13] <Radio_Controlled> hey doom.
[2015-03-31 20:43:25] <Toaster> Though for something that was demonstrably strong even a long time ago, it's gotten hardly any play
[2015-03-31 20:43:31] <Radio_Controlled> Oh yeah, like a quadruped sod almost.
[2015-03-31 20:44:00] <Radio_Controlled> Hey, there's only been 1 battlesuit in the entire game so far as well.
[2015-03-31 20:44:14] <Toaster> It's also more than twice as expensive
[2015-03-31 20:44:15] <Toaster> Or was
[2015-03-31 20:44:45] <Toaster> Also gene mod is out anyway since they need a level of end to take
[2015-03-31 20:44:46] <Radio_Controlled> Gilgamesh should get honorary mention in the HMRC/ARM lore book.
[2015-03-31 20:46:20] <Radio_Controlled> You want a lot of things toaster.
[2015-03-31 20:46:31] <Radio_Controlled> Very multiclass.
[2015-03-31 20:46:34] <Toaster> I do!
[2015-03-31 20:46:48] <Toaster> Lars managed to fit right in a niche
[2015-03-31 20:47:11] <Toaster> (Mostly because he had so many missions under his belt)
[2015-03-31 20:47:30] <Doomblade> Multiclassing is fun.
[2015-03-31 20:48:28] <Nikitian> Yeah
[2015-03-31 20:48:52] <Nikitian> Also, does anyone have any idea when PW will come?
[2015-03-31 20:49:01] <Toaster> When he's done with his homework
[2015-03-31 20:50:30] <Nikitian> Somehow you just made me imagine a slowly but steadily filling "Homework" progress-bar floating around Piecewise
[2015-03-31 20:50:36] <Doomblade> 51%
[2015-03-31 20:50:37] <Doomblade> 52%
[2015-03-31 20:50:40] <Doomblade> 53%
[2015-03-31 20:50:48] <Doomblade> I like that idea.
[2015-03-31 20:51:49] -->| Piecewise (Piecewise@yy-23-8-494-4.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 20:52:51] <Piecewise> Sup
[2015-03-31 20:52:57] <Toaster> 99%
[2015-03-31 20:52:59] <Toaster> 100%
[2015-03-31 20:53:16] <Toaster> Howdy
[2015-03-31 20:53:21] <Nikitian> Hi!
[2015-03-31 20:53:26] <Radio_Controlled> Heh.
[2015-03-31 20:53:33] <Radio_Controlled> Ding!
[2015-03-31 20:53:41] <Nikitian>
[2015-03-31 20:53:43] <Piecewise> So
[2015-03-31 20:53:47] <Toaster> Well... one option is to drop Lars to +2 Con
[2015-03-31 20:53:51] <Piecewise> People seem to really want to keep manips
[2015-03-31 20:53:54] <Toaster> That'd let him get +2 aux and +2 exo
[2015-03-31 20:53:54] <Piecewise> alright
[2015-03-31 20:53:55] <Radio_Controlled> Still pretty good.
[2015-03-31 20:54:08] <Piecewise> how do we make them different from amps
[2015-03-31 20:54:14] <Toaster> But then I just realized I'd have to get to +2 cha somehow as well
[2015-03-31 20:54:20] <Piecewise> in terms of gameplay
[2015-03-31 20:54:31] <Toaster> Because currently Lars isn't
[2015-03-31 20:54:43] <Radio_Controlled> Well, for amps a little overshot probably destroy your brain and permakills due to proximity.
[2015-03-31 20:54:59] <Radio_Controlled> High risk, high reward.
[2015-03-31 20:55:07] <SeanMirrsen> Make them wizard things, as opposed to sorcerer things?
[2015-03-31 20:55:10] <Nikitian> Stable-ish, safe-ish, possibly tame-ish? (compared to amps)
[2015-03-31 20:55:39] <Toaster> Nah, all three isn't possible without another level up (or giving up +3 Fate which I *really* don't want to do)
[2015-03-31 20:55:40] <Radio_Controlled> Manips are safer, but slower to use (eg don't allow a manip user to block bullets as a reaction shot) and need ammo.
[2015-03-31 20:55:49] <SeanMirrsen> Amps are sorcerer things. Cast at will, whatever you want, as long as you know what to do and have the energy.
[2015-03-31 20:56:06] <SeanMirrsen> A wizard has to do research, and pre-allocate his "spells", before he can use them.
[2015-03-31 20:56:08] <Toaster> I like the "Amps are instant small effects, manips are slow large effects" plan
[2015-03-31 20:56:16] <Radio_Controlled> And manips don't eat your soul... equally fast.
[2015-03-31 20:56:24] <Nikitian> @Sean Please, don't make us prepare our spells in the morning
[2015-03-31 20:56:29] <SeanMirrsen> Hehe.
[2015-03-31 20:56:39] <Toaster> You only got 7 hours of sleep so your spells don't recharge
[2015-03-31 20:56:40] <SeanMirrsen> Not quite so literally.
[2015-03-31 20:57:25] <SeanMirrsen> But you would have to keep better track of ammo, and would only be able to use a limited arsenal of effects that you preload into the device you're using.
[2015-03-31 20:57:35] <Toaster> So could I wire up a chunk of flesh on the backside of a Battlesuit for use with a hive?
[2015-03-31 20:57:57] <Toaster> Rent out Xan for hive holder
[2015-03-31 20:58:01] <Nikitian> @Sean But that sounds like automanips?
[2015-03-31 20:58:01] <parisbre56> Yes, but that's more bookkeeping for piecewise
[2015-03-31 20:58:10] <parisbre56> Even with the wiki, it makes things harder
[2015-03-31 20:58:28] <Nikitian> (well, more diversified, but still stable and fixed)
[2015-03-31 20:58:39] <Radio_Controlled> Yeah, I wouldn't go quite that far with manips.
[2015-03-31 20:58:48] <Doomblade> I'm in favor of somewhat limiting manips with the safer effects side.
[2015-03-31 20:59:04] <Radio_Controlled> Then we have people trying to justify having every 'spell' prepared.
[2015-03-31 20:59:10] <Swordsmith04> Tracking ammo wouldn't necessarily add any more bookkeeping for piecewise. As long as the turns themselves make it clear how much ammo is actually used, the wiki does all the work.
[2015-03-31 20:59:27] <Doomblade> Also, we could reduce the ammo count and the cost.
[2015-03-31 21:00:05] -->| Pancaek (Mibbit@713-752-33-80.access.telenet.be) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 21:00:16] <Nikitian> The number of uses is large enough (especially after that increase some time ago) not to matter, no?
[2015-03-31 21:00:27] <Radio_Controlled> @ sword: you mean the wiki gnomes do all the work. don't cut yourself short!
[2015-03-31 21:00:50] <Radio_Controlled> hey pan.
[2015-03-31 21:00:57] <SeanMirrsen> Not quite. An automanip does exactly what you tell it to, it can't be changed. This would allow you to pick parameters - how much energy to spend, how far or wide the effect goes, etc. It's sort of contingent on that research thing I keep mentioning Anton would be trying to do. Unless that works out, it's more of a general idea than a concrete plan.
[2015-03-31 21:01:06] <Toaster> Preparation should be at most limited to different kinds of manips having different effects
[2015-03-31 21:01:27] <Pancaek> evening everyone
[2015-03-31 21:01:30] <Toaster> Like a "gravity" one can change the gravity on a large are (like the entire ship of the upcoming mission)
[2015-03-31 21:01:33] <Nikitian> Hi, Pancaek
[2015-03-31 21:01:54] <Toaster> Or a "chemistry" one making everything in an area oxidize very rapidly
[2015-03-31 21:02:29] <Radio_Controlled> Toaster, we have that. It's called burning.
[2015-03-31 21:02:37] <Doomblade> FIREEE
[2015-03-31 21:03:09] <Toaster> Well yeah, but categorize it differently
[2015-03-31 21:03:26] <Toaster> The amp can freeze or heat stuff
[2015-03-31 21:03:56] <Toaster> The chemistry one can make stuff catch on fire (still needs oxygen) or speed/slow other chemical reactions, or prevent acids and bases from mixing
[2015-03-31 21:04:15] <Radio_Controlled> Sounds a bit like matter converter territory maybe.
[2015-03-31 21:04:16] <Toaster> Stuff like that; you may be able to make similar effects, but the idea behind it is different
[2015-03-31 21:04:16] <Piecewise> So is everyone ok with Int and Will becoming a single stat? Or is there blowback about that too?
[2015-03-31 21:04:30] <Radio_Controlled> Nah, that i think everybody agrees on.
[2015-03-31 21:04:42] <Nikitian> Well, there is the problem with too few stats
[2015-03-31 21:04:48] <Toaster> Or too many skills?
[2015-03-31 21:04:48] <Radio_Controlled> A-Some even said to also roll intuition into general knowledge or fate.
[2015-03-31 21:04:54] <Nikitian> Or, conversely, too many skills
[2015-03-31 21:05:09] <Pancaek> I think it's fine
[2015-03-31 21:05:12] <Nikitian> (I'd rather go with few stats)
[2015-03-31 21:05:18] <Toaster> Intuiton could be split purposed into genknow/fate
[2015-03-31 21:05:25] <SeanMirrsen> You could move intuition into stats. How is it a skill anyway? It's literally a gut feeling.
[2015-03-31 21:05:35] <Nikitian> Oh
[2015-03-31 21:05:42] <Nikitian> Now *that* could work, yes
[2015-03-31 21:05:47] <Toaster> Figuring out things from obvious clues is genkno, while ideas coming from nothing is fate
[2015-03-31 21:06:13] <Radio_Controlled> Kinda feel like intuition is a bit of a dump stat anyways.
[2015-03-31 21:06:22] <Nikitian> Well, this has drawback of explaining Fate and giving it practical use instead of being a scarecrow
[2015-03-31 21:06:46] <SeanMirrsen> Ideas coming from nothing is pretty much what intuition (and inspiration) is about.
[2015-03-31 21:07:16] <Radio_Controlled> Not really, biologicvally speaking, but good enough.
[2015-03-31 21:07:21] <Swordsmith04> Could move Charisma into skills.
[2015-03-31 21:07:30] <Radio_Controlled> It's more a broad pattern recognition.
[2015-03-31 21:07:46] <Radio_Controlled> Or move general knowledge there?
[2015-03-31 21:08:06] <Nikitian> Huh
[2015-03-31 21:08:23] <Nikitian> How about we drop "general" adjective?
[2015-03-31 21:08:29] <Doomblade> Yeah.
[2015-03-31 21:08:32] <Doomblade> THat sounds nice.
[2015-03-31 21:08:50] <Nikitian> Then, I think, it could be more clear why Knowledge and Mind succeeded the Intelligence of old
[2015-03-31 21:08:58] <SeanMirrsen> I kept thinking "Lore" when I saw "general knowledge".
[2015-03-31 21:09:12] <Radio_Controlled> Isn't that just renaming intelligence then?
[2015-03-31 21:09:34] <Nikitian> Hmmm? No, because there is also Musicality and Everything Else thrown in
[2015-03-31 21:09:46] <Nikitian> As in, it is a skill rather than a stat
[2015-03-31 21:09:53] <Nikitian> Something acquired in life
[2015-03-31 21:10:01] <Radio_Controlled> Is there a word that says 'intuition, general knowledge, and other stuff'?
[2015-03-31 21:10:18] <AoshimaMichio> "stuff"
[2015-03-31 21:10:25] <Radio_Controlled> Maybe 'street smarts' :p
[2015-03-31 21:10:29] <Nikitian> 'GM Hint'?
[2015-03-31 21:10:30] <AoshimaMichio> "skillz"
[2015-03-31 21:10:39] <Radio_Controlled> 'L33t'
[2015-03-31 21:11:39] <Doomblade> Knowledge?
[2015-03-31 21:12:13] <Radio_Controlled> Off all these, knowledge might be best, yeah.
[2015-03-31 21:12:24] <Radio_Controlled> But we'll have to be clear what kinds of things it covers.
[2015-03-31 21:12:32] <Doomblade> Yeah.
[2015-03-31 21:12:37] <Nikitian> How about we give more use/benefit to Intuition instead of putting it in Knowledge?
[2015-03-31 21:12:58] <Radio_Controlled> By the way pw, those body mods, is there an avatar version of them?
[2015-03-31 21:13:03] <Doomblade> It's always been useful, nobody rolls well, or rolls it at all.
[2015-03-31 21:13:23] <Nikitian> As in, actually tell an Intu specialist about that ambush, or trap, or something, as the description indicates
[2015-03-31 21:13:23] <SeanMirrsen> Intuition isn't knowledge. It's "unknowledge".
[2015-03-31 21:13:45] <SeanMirrsen> It's not acquired, it's intrinsic. A stat, not a skill.
[2015-03-31 21:13:56] <Radio_Controlled> Eh, I'd think it's better to let players think for themselves, and only give hints when really neccesary, instead of a 'I don't wanna think, just gimme the answer' option.
[2015-03-31 21:14:18] <Nikitian> Well, maybe it can be trained a bit; but yeah, I agree that Intuition is intrinsic
[2015-03-31 21:14:45] <Radio_Controlled> Just moving intuition into stats is also good for me though.
[2015-03-31 21:15:21] <Radio_Controlled> But then we'll need pw to remember to use it from time.
[2015-03-31 21:15:39] <Nikitian> Well, that's an easy one
[2015-03-31 21:16:11] <Toaster> I don't think Intu is *bad*, but with genknow and fate in the mix, it's in a weird spot
[2015-03-31 21:16:37] <Nikitian> Just say it's the general stat to be able to react before or right as something bad happens; remember that "microton grenade in your latrine" piece in the description?
[2015-03-31 21:16:44] <Piecewise> Ok so lets forget about rebalancing stats and skills for the minute
[2015-03-31 21:16:55] * Toaster forgets
[2015-03-31 21:16:57] <Piecewise> Here's what I'm thinking
[2015-03-31 21:16:58] <Radio_Controlled> I'd think just removing intuit is the best option, is a skill less.
[2015-03-31 21:17:21] <parisbre56> Intuition to stats sounds good to me
[2015-03-31 21:17:23] <Radio_Controlled> Cue dancing monkeys.
[2015-03-31 21:17:25] <Piecewise> Amps: Faster, more powerful, more dangerous
[2015-03-31 21:17:46] <Piecewise> Manips, slower,  less powerful, safer
[2015-03-31 21:18:13] <Toaster> How much slower is slower?
[2015-03-31 21:18:21] <Nikitian> How much is less powerful?
[2015-03-31 21:18:22] <Radio_Controlled> And both categories have some extras to round out their set?
[2015-03-31 21:18:30] <Radio_Controlled> Sounds good at first sight.
[2015-03-31 21:18:46] <Toaster> I agree with RC that they need something more distinctive than shifting some numbers
[2015-03-31 21:18:57] <Toaster> Something one can do that the other cannot
[2015-03-31 21:19:03] <parisbre56> Is it something you can prepare for, like "I take some time to prepare to hit that robot as it reaches that point and hit execute at the right time"? Something like preparing a trap?
[2015-03-31 21:19:33] <Doomblade> That would be nice. Also, there's the idea that you can affect machines with manips and flesh with amps.
[2015-03-31 21:19:39] <Doomblade> THough we already kinda have that.
[2015-03-31 21:19:43] <Toaster> Can you designate a target (that guy running around) or only an area?
[2015-03-31 21:19:46] <Radio_Controlled> One thing to quantify it would be different mindpoint usage.
[2015-03-31 21:19:59] <Nikitian> Yeah, sounds good, but the ammo thing probably has to be balanced out by something; previously it was by being safer, but now that probably balances out being slower and less powerful (and thus the ammo question is left hanging)
[2015-03-31 21:20:24] <Nikitian> (it still depends on how much slower and how much less powerful)
[2015-03-31 21:20:40] <Radio_Controlled> Well, if manips rtake less mindpoints (which now uses the same pool) it might work out?
[2015-03-31 21:21:06] <Nikitian> Huh; yes, I think it'd work out elegantly with the ammo thing
[2015-03-31 21:21:47] <Nikitian> Either "free" and fewer, or "tanstaafl" and more
[2015-03-31 21:23:46] <Doomblade> So what do we think about ammo count then?
[2015-03-31 21:24:20] <Radio_Controlled> 20 for 3 tokens right now.
[2015-03-31 21:24:26] <Radio_Controlled> Might have to change?
[2015-03-31 21:24:32] <Doomblade> Sounds good to me.
[2015-03-31 21:24:40] <Doomblade> Tesla saber runs a minute on 3.
[2015-03-31 21:24:46] <Doomblade> So that's actually a lot of ammo.
[2015-03-31 21:25:03] -->| Hapah (Mibbit@i-907-81-37-43.hsd9.ar.comcast.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 21:25:13] <Hapah> Wow, busy in here
[2015-03-31 21:25:22] <Nikitian> Hi
[2015-03-31 21:25:52] <Radio_Controlled> Could change to 10 charges for 2 tokens if that's better.
[2015-03-31 21:26:00] <Radio_Controlled> Hy hap.
[2015-03-31 21:26:02] <Toaster> Honk honk Hapah
[2015-03-31 21:26:21] <Nikitian> Well, that's less, but probably still very manageable
[2015-03-31 21:26:26] <Radio_Controlled> No, bad toaster. No more honking in public we said.
[2015-03-31 21:26:49] <Radio_Controlled> goes from 1 tokens for 7 charges to 1 token for 5.
[2015-03-31 21:28:16] <Nikitian> Yeah, and finally invalidates the point of "Buy a manip battery and receive a free MFM as a gift!"
[2015-03-31 21:28:37] <Radio_Controlled> indeed.
[2015-03-31 21:28:39] <Piecewise> The difficulty with making amps dangerous is making them still usable
[2015-03-31 21:29:02] <Radio_Controlled> People will have to leanr to know their limits.
[2015-03-31 21:29:21] <Radio_Controlled> I mean, it's space magic you don't understand or know the origin of right in your skull.
[2015-03-31 21:29:27] <Pancaek> ^fun gestapo
[2015-03-31 21:29:35] <Piecewise> Like, would anyone use them if you had a 50/50 chance of losing one point in a level by fucking up? (Not a +1, but one of the points you get on level up, so you'd go from having 5 to 4 or something)
[2015-03-31 21:29:43] <Radio_Controlled> Yes, I quite  fun gestapo.
[2015-03-31 21:30:02] <Pancaek> what constitues fucking up?
[2015-03-31 21:30:09] <Piecewise> rolling 3 or lower
[2015-03-31 21:30:30] <Doomblade> o.O
[2015-03-31 21:30:38] <Piecewise> I don't think you guys understand what I talk about when I say "Make more powerful, also more dangerous"
[2015-03-31 21:30:39] <Pancaek> So, the untrained newbie has a 50/50 chance of not only failing his action, but also losing a levelup point
[2015-03-31 21:30:43] <Radio_Controlled> That's a bit harsh perhaps.
[2015-03-31 21:30:45] <Doomblade> Interesting.
[2015-03-31 21:30:47] <Nikitian> How about that kicks in only if your mindpoints are low?
[2015-03-31 21:30:49] <Doomblade> Yeah, harsh.
[2015-03-31 21:30:57] <Doomblade> Nikitan has an idea.
[2015-03-31 21:30:58] <parisbre56> What if every time you rolled something other than 3,4,5 you had a chance to cause some kind of side effect? Perhaps a side effect of the reality degradation?
[2015-03-31 21:31:15] <Nikitian> As in, you can know your limits, or you can keep pushing yourself and risk burning out
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[2015-03-31 21:31:44] <parisbre56> Nikitian: And make them take more mindpoints to use, meaning you burn out quickly. That would work.
[2015-03-31 21:31:45] <Nikitian> @Paris We'll destroy reality in two missions then
[2015-03-31 21:31:52] <Radio_Controlled> Pancaek doesn't agree it seems.
[2015-03-31 21:31:58] -->| pancaek (Mibbit@713-752-33-80.access.telenet.be) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[2015-03-31 21:32:03] <Toaster> I agree with Paris
[2015-03-31 21:32:09] <Radio_Controlled> But he quickly cooled of.
[2015-03-31 21:32:20] <pancaek> right, browser fucked up, what'd I miss?
[2015-03-31 21:32:21] <Piecewise> space magic needs to be restrained
[2015-03-31 21:32:21] <parisbre56> The first thing or the second thing?
[2015-03-31 21:32:25] <Toaster> Someone poured on syrup
[2015-03-31 21:32:26] <Piecewise> it's too powerful right now
[2015-03-31 21:32:36] <Toaster> The side effect idea
[2015-03-31 21:32:40] <Piecewise> well, too powerful but lacking side effects
[2015-03-31 21:32:49] <Hapah> It does kinda make guns look pitiful in comparison
[2015-03-31 21:32:51] <Radio_Controlled> Well, harming people if they overdo it should get the message across.
[2015-03-31 21:32:59] <parisbre56> Toaster; I dunno, Nikitian's idea sounds good too.
[2015-03-31 21:33:09] <Doomblade> But again, low mindpoint pools.
[2015-03-31 21:33:11] <pancaek> I'd be fine with side effects, but maybe we shouldn't touch the levelup points. It's hard enough to get to +4 as it is
[2015-03-31 21:33:27] <Piecewise> There should be side effects you can't just level yourself out of
[2015-03-31 21:33:35] <Doomblade> Physical harm is usually a good deterrant
[2015-03-31 21:33:37] <Radio_Controlled> Which was intentional from pw I think.
[2015-03-31 21:33:37] <pancaek> like?
[2015-03-31 21:33:48] <Toaster> Well, we can see four sources of side effect.  1)  Overshoot  2) Low roll  3) Low mind points 4) Trying to do too much
[2015-03-31 21:33:58] <Piecewise> leveling should reduce the chance, or severity, but there must always be fear of consequences
[2015-03-31 21:34:10] <Nikitian> Then how about reality harm to the character instead of missing levelup points?
[2015-03-31 21:34:23] <SeanMirrsen> What if draining mindpoints literally drains your points? The closer you are to being tapped out, the lower your effective skill... a logistical nightmare I guess, but...
[2015-03-31 21:34:27] <Toaster> Better stats could mitigate the roll effects, but not eliminate them
[2015-03-31 21:34:34] <Radio_Controlled> Maybe instead of rolling a bit badly, you need to roll badly and be at lower mindpoints as you progress?
[2015-03-31 21:34:38] <Piecewise> The problem is that it's hard to make consequences actually matter in ER.
[2015-03-31 21:34:41] <Toaster> So if you roll a 1, there will always be a side effect
[2015-03-31 21:34:46] <Piecewise> Lose a limb? Who cares, robot body
[2015-03-31 21:35:01] <parisbre56> But you are worthless for the rest of the mission. Or dead
[2015-03-31 21:35:01] <Piecewise> Lose memories? Who cares, not everyone RP's verey much
[2015-03-31 21:35:09] <Toaster> Just the difference between making your eyes bleed or blowing up a teammate
[2015-03-31 21:35:12] <Doomblade> Lose Mind stat? Effective.
[2015-03-31 21:35:21] <Nikitian> Well, you could have Altered-Ivan-esque slow march of increasing consequences
[2015-03-31 21:35:21] <Doomblade> But brutal.
[2015-03-31 21:35:29] <Radio_Controlled> That's due to the permadeath-tempdeath thing.
[2015-03-31 21:35:35] <Piecewise> Here's an idea, I'm not sure if it's ok though
[2015-03-31 21:35:36] <SeanMirrsen> Introduce SAN loss?
[2015-03-31 21:35:38] <parisbre56> Damage to your mind cannot be repaired
[2015-03-31 21:35:42] <Toaster> Mutate someone's body, and have them reject robotic replacement
[2015-03-31 21:35:52] <Piecewise> Imagine it like this
[2015-03-31 21:36:01] <Toaster> A hidden sanity stat might be useful
[2015-03-31 21:36:02] <Piecewise> Mind points get you X amount of "ammo"
[2015-03-31 21:36:16] <Piecewise> or mind bullets or whatever
[2015-03-31 21:36:22] <parisbre56> OK
[2015-03-31 21:36:29] <Piecewise> That amount DOES NOT regen until after the mission
[2015-03-31 21:36:48] <Radio_Controlled> Hmm.
[2015-03-31 21:36:52] <parisbre56> So if you overdo it you pass out and that's it?
[2015-03-31 21:36:53] <Nikitian> ... did it ever, except when rebooting the drain I attempted last time?
[2015-03-31 21:36:59] <Nikitian> brain*
[2015-03-31 21:36:59] <Radio_Controlled> Difficult.
[2015-03-31 21:37:10] <Toaster> Not at all, or would long hour cases like the Eater mission also regen them?
[2015-03-31 21:37:25] <Nikitian> 8 hour rest
[2015-03-31 21:37:35] <parisbre56> Sleep to prepare your spells!
[2015-03-31 21:37:35] <Hapah> Roll Elf for 4 hour recharge time
[2015-03-31 21:37:48] <Piecewise> ugh
[2015-03-31 21:37:48] <pancaek> Would the player get some more insight in how many "mind bullets" he has then?
[2015-03-31 21:38:15] <Toaster> So if you blew out your mind points all in one go and knocked yourself out, you'd be out cold for an hour?
[2015-03-31 21:38:15] <pancaek> Cause I'm fine with finite mindbullets per mission, but it sucks not having any idea when you're about to run out
[2015-03-31 21:38:35] <Doomblade> Maybe be more aware with increasing skill?
[2015-03-31 21:38:40] <Toaster> Ooo
[2015-03-31 21:38:50] <Nikitian> Yeah, that one would be cool
[2015-03-31 21:39:00] <Toaster> Do that, but introduce a pill that'd wake you up anyway.  Side effect is severe hallucinations and delusions
[2015-03-31 21:39:01] <Piecewise> The idea would be more like "You have 50 mind points. You can spend them to use your manip/amp, but that is also the pool you use to fight off mind fuck so..."
[2015-03-31 21:39:20] <Radio_Controlled> A slower regeneration time could work? And add that if low on mindpoints, also penalties on other rolls.
[2015-03-31 21:39:25] <pancaek> So everyone gets the "too good to use" syndrome
[2015-03-31 21:39:33] <Nikitian> Ohhh...
[2015-03-31 21:39:42] <Hapah> Gets messy Radio, since half of it is subjective to PW anyway
[2015-03-31 21:39:46] <SeanMirrsen> How about just cumulative penalties to Mind as mindpoints are spent? Same basic idea, but better represented in stats.
[2015-03-31 21:39:48] <Radio_Controlled> Hey, pan, now who's the fun police?
[2015-03-31 21:39:58] <pancaek> I was always the fun police
[2015-03-31 21:40:08] <parisbre56> Being awake for a long time with low mind points causes endurnace rolls to resist brain damage?
[2015-03-31 21:40:09] <Nikitian> By any chance, did it already work like that with mindpoints governing mind defense, or not?
[2015-03-31 21:40:25] <Radio_Controlled> Handong out booze to rowdy teens.
[2015-03-31 21:40:49] <Radio_Controlled> The fun police has your back.
[2015-03-31 21:41:05] <Nikitian> Yeah, I agree with Sean as rather cumulative penalties to Mind when too many mind points are spent
[2015-03-31 21:41:45] <Radio_Controlled> Maybe we need to quantify it a bit then.
[2015-03-31 21:42:05] <Radio_Controlled> SAy, below 50% you take a small penalty to rolls.
[2015-03-31 21:42:30] <Doomblade> Yeah. We need to figure out how many mindpoints you have (based off of Mind, of course), what ratios penalties appear at, and how sever.
[2015-03-31 21:42:33] <Doomblade> *severe
[2015-03-31 21:44:39] <Toaster> Also can you take the brain of a dead sentient being and repurpose it mid-mission to offset mindpoint expenditures?
[2015-03-31 21:44:39] <Hapah> But where's 50%? There's no hard number, and I dunno that PW would keep track of it anyway
[2015-03-31 21:44:43] <pancaek> I think it's all getting really finicky then. Pw's idea with losing upgrade points was severe enough and simple enoug, but just doesn't seem feasible to me at the rate which we earn points
[2015-03-31 21:45:57] <Radio_Controlled> I know hapah, but eithr way we'll need some way to track mindpoint usage.
[2015-03-31 21:46:12] <Toaster> The problem with point loss is the way points are earned and spent
[2015-03-31 21:46:20] <Toaster> And that losing a single point can hamstring you a lot
[2015-03-31 21:46:25] <Radio_Controlled> No fun a s a player if you never know where you stand or what you can and cannot reasonably still do.
[2015-03-31 21:46:36] <Toaster> The first point lost is harsh; the next four are practically irrelevant
[2015-03-31 21:46:58] <Nikitian> Piecewise, what about the "reality rejects you" slowly growing affliction? I mean, similar thing was quite tangible with Ivan, despite being slow and gradual - except it does not need to *inevitably* come to the amp user's demise, unlike with Ivan
[2015-03-31 21:47:12] <Doomblade> Yeh. It would create an interesting leveling mechanic.
[2015-03-31 21:47:31] <Toaster> I still like the "sanity" stat idea
[2015-03-31 21:48:03] <Nikitian> Toaster, we'll all start with 0 in it, go down from there
[2015-03-31 21:48:09] <Toaster> It SLOWLY regains (like, on a scale of ten, restore 1-2 points per mission) but takes damage
[2015-03-31 21:48:12] <Doomblade> -5 to san...
[2015-03-31 21:48:19] <Toaster> Maybe have it serve as a bufffer against stat loss
[2015-03-31 21:48:26] <Nikitian> We're the HMRC, after all (even if we are also the ARM)
[2015-03-31 21:48:28] <Doomblade> Not physical stat loss.
[2015-03-31 21:48:47] <Toaster> Well yeah, in terms of mindfuck (which encompasses amps)
[2015-03-31 21:49:16] <pancaek> the thing is, do we really want more things to keep track of?
[2015-03-31 21:50:04] <Toaster> YES.  TRACK ALL THE THINGS
[2015-03-31 21:50:15] <Toaster> Yeah, it's awfully similar to mind points now that I think about it
[2015-03-31 21:50:44] <Toaster> Maybe there should be Perplexicon-style miscasts
[2015-03-31 21:51:03] <Doomblade> Don't know how those work?
[2015-03-31 21:51:25] <Toaster> Me either
[2015-03-31 21:51:28] <Radio_Controlled> Either way, we'll always have the problem of inconsistency in point usage, no avoiding that.
[2015-03-31 21:51:31] <Toaster> But PW is creative
[2015-03-31 21:51:42] <Toaster> There's simply too many cases to define something
[2015-03-31 21:51:55] <Radio_Controlled> Yep.
[2015-03-31 21:51:57] <Toaster> How many mind points does boiling a cup of tea use?  Melting a tank?
[2015-03-31 21:52:00] <Toaster> What about two tanks?

[Parisbre56]

Spoiler: Part 2 (click to show/hide)

[2015-03-31 21:52:11] <Piecewise> ugh
[2015-03-31 21:52:13] <Piecewise> UGH
[2015-03-31 21:52:13] <Toaster> Two tanks five or twelve meters apart
[2015-03-31 21:52:27] <Toaster> Can't make a chart for all that
[2015-03-31 21:52:27] <Radio_Controlled> We could try to put them into categories of sorts.
[2015-03-31 21:52:36] <Radio_Controlled> low, medium, high, ultra.
[2015-03-31 21:52:41] <pancaek> we could just scrap amps and manips alltogether
[2015-03-31 21:52:53] <Toaster> GM fiat is going to be the order of the day here
[2015-03-31 21:53:15] <Radio_Controlled> Just erase small differences and put each use into one of these categories, with accompanying mindpoint usage.
[2015-03-31 21:53:18] <Piecewise> Scrap everything. This is now a pacific rim xcom style game about piloting giant robots
[2015-03-31 21:53:24] <Toaster> Sweet
[2015-03-31 21:53:27] <Nikitian> Nice
[2015-03-31 21:53:31] <pancaek> I'd play it
[2015-03-31 21:53:37] <Radio_Controlled> Next pw project confirmed.
[2015-03-31 21:53:38] <Toaster> I'd watch PW do an LP of it
[2015-03-31 21:53:55] <Toaster> Speaking of LPs, when are you narrating the ER slashfic?
[2015-03-31 21:54:09] <Doomblade> Tomorrow? Let it be tomorrow?
[2015-03-31 21:54:57] <Doomblade> I propose a very simple mindpoint system: every mind level gives you four mind points. Manips use one per use, amps use two for every use.
[2015-03-31 21:55:14] <Doomblade> +0 gives you 2 points.
[2015-03-31 21:56:16] |<-- Doomblade has left irc.darkmyst.org:6697 (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[2015-03-31 21:57:18] <Toaster> Doomblade was slain for his idea
[2015-03-31 21:57:19] <Radio_Controlled> Same amount of points for every use seems a bit too broad maybe?
[2015-03-31 21:57:27] <Nikitian> Exactly
[2015-03-31 21:57:57] <pancaek> and what. a +0 users gets to do one amp attack and then just collapses?
[2015-03-31 21:57:58] <Toaster> Yeah
[2015-03-31 21:58:03] <Nikitian> Especially if one is to compare heating a cup of cofee to Miya's Hephaestus assault heatblade
[2015-03-31 21:58:03] <Radio_Controlled> If we go with the 'categories of difficulty' it might be usable though.
[2015-03-31 21:58:27] <Radio_Controlled> low, medium, high, ultra uses 1,2,4,6 points or so.
[2015-03-31 21:58:50] <Radio_Controlled> With modifier for amp vs manip.
[2015-03-31 21:59:14] <Radio_Controlled> Or maybe 1, 4, 10, 20 is better, I dunno.
[2015-03-31 21:59:24] <Radio_Controlled> And 1.5x modifier for amps.
[2015-03-31 21:59:44] <Radio_Controlled> Then pw just mentiones what level an action took, and wiki can track the mindpoints.
[2015-03-31 22:00:13] <Nikitian> Well, that works - though only if we are allowed to know mindpoints from now on
[2015-03-31 22:00:35] <Radio_Controlled> That's a down-and upside.
[2015-03-31 22:01:03] <Radio_Controlled> Too bad of the flavor (gauging headaches) but easier, and people don't need to ask 1000 times how good they feel.
[2015-03-31 22:01:04] <parisbre56> You don't need to know, just have a general idea
[2015-03-31 22:01:24] <parisbre56> Just like you don't know how close to bleeding out you are
[2015-03-31 22:01:39] <Nikitian> And then again there will be the problem of "why do less if I can do more and still fit in the same space-magic spell level?"
[2015-03-31 22:01:50] <parisbre56> That too
[2015-03-31 22:01:57] <parisbre56> Better to leave things vague
[2015-03-31 22:01:58] <pancaek> "You use a four point attack" "how much do I have left?" "Dunno, you've got a bit of a headache"
[2015-03-31 22:02:03] <Radio_Controlled> And people can better estimate how far they can push themselves at what level, to offset higher consequences.
[2015-03-31 22:02:27] <parisbre56> Besides, you can't control how much you do anyway, with overshoots and stuff like that
[2015-03-31 22:02:44] <Radio_Controlled> Well yes that's a risk as usual.
[2015-03-31 22:02:51] <parisbre56> You can start doing one thing and end up doing another, far grater or far smaller
[2015-03-31 22:03:05] <Radio_Controlled> =but do you go for low level and overshoot into high, or go for high and overshoot into miniature sun?
[2015-03-31 22:03:23] <parisbre56> Anyway, got to go. Have fun driving piecewise insane
[2015-03-31 22:03:36] <Radio_Controlled> Hey, he asked for it!
[2015-03-31 22:03:48] <Radio_Controlled> Anyways, bye.
[2015-03-31 22:03:50] <Nikitian> Good bye, Paris
[2015-03-31 22:03:52] [QUIT] Disconnected from irc://irc.darkmyst.org:6697/ (irc://irc.darkmyst.org:6697/). [[Reconnect][Reconnect to irc.darkmyst.org:6697][reconnect]]

[swordsmith04]

Regardless: http://n-blox.com/

Level:5
Score: 7480
Lines: 47

Thats what I just got. I demand you beat it.

Level: 10
Score: 27,971
Lines: 91

Today I learned that either PW is bad at Tetris or I have more experience than I realized.

Level: 13
Score: 108,381
Lines: 126

[Lenglon]

That's the log. The highlighted part at 21:36:29 is the one I was talking about. Don't know if you guys came to some other conclusion later, but I took that to mean that this is how things are going to be from now on. And that since it is an internal/hidden game mechanic, one that is not needed to be made known to the players, it wasn't mentioned in the "official" armoury page.

I only see a single "what if" question with no follow-up. are you sure that's the log you ment to post?

[Radio Controlled]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. The part you highlighted was from before he even invented the system with the separate brains that have to be bought, far as I can see it. If that is correct, that would make that part... Kinda irrelevant.

Anyways, let's for a sec go with the idea that mindpoints should indeed recharge really slowly. What time frame are we talking then? Cause some missions take a few in-game hours, some a couple days, and once it was a year. So how long a time frame are we speaking for fully recharging? An hour, a day, a month? Cause that's kinda important to know, and nowhere is it apparently written down, even though it's a basic game mechanic. And judging from the fact that pw thought switching brains took a med roll, even though there's several instances of him saying it'd use aux, we might want to start writing down these mechanics clearly, cause he apparently forgets them in the middle of a mission. Had he not told us why exactly the brainswitching went so wrong, I would've lost 13 tokens worth of equipment for no good reason.

[Parisbre56]

Ah, sorry, looks like my memory failed me then. I remembered that was after the thing with the manipulators being brains. And that we were discussing how the new manipulators were going to work. I had to log out so I didn't see how the conversation ended. So you're right, it's very likely piecewise decided something else after I logged out.

[Toaster]

Regardless: http://n-blox.com/

Level:5
Score: 7480
Lines: 47

Thats what I just got. I demand you beat it.

Level: 10
Score: 27,971
Lines: 91

Today I learned that either PW is bad at Tetris or I have more experience than I realized.

Level: 13
Score: 108,381
Lines: 126

Bah!

Level: 13
Score: 92,738
Lines: 121

[spazyak]

How. Many level up will I get from this mission

[Kriellya]

Thanks for the logs, Paris. It gave me the info I needed to find the *full* days logs. Which apparently should be in the OOC channel somewhere, according to the logs XD

Spoiler: The relevant part (click to show/hide)

Mar 31 12:44:05 <Piecewise>   So, First change, Manips (not auto manips, just manips used by humans) will be getting a design change. They're gonna be made larger to refect the fact that you're now gonna be carrying around a whole human brain and support system. More on why in a moment
Mar 31 12:44:21 <Piecewise>   Now, Amps and manips will have the same power
Mar 31 12:44:27 <Piecewise>   In terms of effective change
Mar 31 12:44:31 <Piecewise>   The differences are these
Mar 31 12:44:48 <Piecewise>   Amps: First, you can do things instantly, or very fast
Mar 31 12:45:08 <Piecewise>   so you can react to stuff. An amp user could block an incoming rocket. A manip user can't
Mar 31 12:45:17 <Piecewise>   Assume that manips take 5-10 seconds to be used
Mar 31 12:45:47 <Piecewise>   Second, Amps tend towards more long lasting, less precise attacks.
Mar 31 12:45:57 <Piecewise>   While Manips tend towards instant, precise attacks
Mar 31 12:46:04 <Piecewise>   Amps are flamethrowers, manips are bullets
Mar 31 12:46:11 <Piecewise>   if that makes sense
Mar 31 12:46:38 <Toaster>   Manip to remove a sentry by scalpel, amp to set the fortifications on fire
Mar 31 12:46:40 <Empiricist>   I would just like to say that I fully support any motion to turn UNCON into CLOWN and for Renen to turn into a horrific cybernetic murder-clown of death.
Mar 31 12:46:58 <Piecewise>   Now, in terms of mind points thats gonna be pretty different
Mar 31 12:47:16 <Piecewise>   The idea here is actually more in line with how things should work in universe though, so there's that
Mar 31 12:47:16 <Toaster>   https://31.media.tumblr.com/444a05ede4685ca26cbb46c1de0afac6/tumblr_mgkvaelmUj1rjt3j1o1_400.gif
Mar 31 12:48:12 <Piecewise>   When you use these things, the idea is that they put stress on the brain. Too much stress and you get side effects. if you exceed a limit, it can even cause permanent damage or death
Mar 31 12:48:25 <Piecewise>   Thats always been kinda implicit
Mar 31 12:48:51 <Piecewise>   The major difference here is whose brain you're stressing
Mar 31 12:49:06 <Piecewise>   Amps stress the brain of the user, Manips use a proxy brain, right?
Mar 31 12:49:19 <Piecewise>   So the idea is this:
Mar 31 12:49:36 <Doomblade>   I would ask where the brains come from, but that would be a bad idea.
Mar 31 12:50:13 <Radio_Controlled>   Orphans, of course.
Mar 31 12:50:16 <Piecewise>   Amp users will up Mind, and this will give them more ammo. They'll always be able to tell just how stressed they're becoming and be able to guess how much an attack will stress them
Mar 31 12:50:34 <Piecewise>   They'll have transparency at the price of being the one in danger
Mar 31 12:52:07 <Doomblade>   This sounds good. Would they have the original exo/uncon split?
Mar 31 12:52:15 <Piecewise>   Manip users will NOT up mind. Because it isn't THEIR mind at risk. Instead, it is the brain in the jar they're using. As such, they won't know how stressed the brain is, and they won't know how much is too much. They can accidently kill their proxy much easier because of it. The trade off is that instead of leveling things up, the brains will be bought.
Mar 31 12:52:37 <Piecewise>   In essence they will be like batteries of different levels of power.
Mar 31 12:52:53 <Radio_Controlled>   So there'sll be different batteris?
Mar 31 12:52:54 <Piecewise>   However, as long as you let the battery rest, it will never "Run out" like before
Mar 31 12:52:56 <Doomblade>   So you can buy different power brains?
Mar 31 12:53:22 <Piecewise>   Yes. You'll have different teirs of brains to use, with different "Power levels"
Mar 31 12:53:42 <Doomblade>   Interesting. I like it. Will we be able to put the brains in robobodies? :3
Mar 31 12:53:51 <Radio_Controlled>   Can we kidnap civilians and get free disposable brains to use?
Mar 31 12:54:05 <Piecewise>   Sure, though their mind points will be random

I'll note that 'run out' is in quotes. This doesn't make it clear whether or not PW's statement earlier that day about mind points is active, but I think it makes way more sense as a slow regen rather than something that lets you swap around 2 brains forever without consequence.

My interpretation is that the 'mind points' manip brains have are functionally identical to those that players have, so whatever is true of the player pool of Mind Points is also true of the manip pool. Currently, I think that means it has slow regen that is only really possible to 'top off' between missions, or on exceptionally long missions like the Year-long one. So, resting a brain for a bit will let you take another shot without issue... but it won't let you take an entire fresh brain's worth of shots, which it sounds like is what you were expecting?

[Hapah]

Would anyone be interested in playing Cards Against Humanity sometime? My wife found some website where you can make rooms and play.

[Radio Controlled]

Nah, I was basically expecting regen to occur at a speed that allowed a used brain to be useful again, even if only partially, during the period of time of a normal mission, but the exact extend I didn't know. I'd be up for whatever, but it'd be nice to know. I guess my main issue is how unclear it all is, evidenced by the fact nobody even really knows how that (basic) game mechanic is supposed to work. And finding out a mechanic didn't work the way one thought it did in the middle of a tense, high stakes mission isn't ideal, to say the least. But, here's hoping we'll find out today when he runs the planet mission actions.

[kj1225]

Would anyone be interested in playing Cards Against Humanity sometime? My wife found some website where you can make rooms and play.

You can also make custom packs. I may have known of the site for a while.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Would anyone be interested in playing Cards Against Humanity sometime? My wife found some website where you can make rooms and play.

I'd be interested if you can manage to match my timezone.

Also, a custom ER pack could be fun.

[Gentlefish]

Would anyone be interested in playing Cards Against Humanity sometime? My wife found some website where you can make rooms and play.

I'd be interested if you can manage to match my timezone.

Also, a custom ER pack could be fun.

Xantalos becoming a flesh horror. Again.

[Parisbre56]

Looks like mission 19 is about to release the bees...