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[Harry Baldman]

I chose a general purpose forum with no other current candidates because it is a compromise. You still get a forum that organizes ER well, and does not support the argument that people may use of favoritism, since the bar will be set for games that truly do need organization on the level of ER. Sure, it may not come for years, the point of this is to have the greatest acceptance from both sides.

But there's one more problem with that compromise that just occurred to me. Imagine this: ER has existed for two years, more or less, and gets to be the first and only game to move to a subboard that, in all but name, is its own. Immediately after that, a bright new mind conceives a wonderful idea for an RTD and starts to diligently work on it. Two years later, this RTD has grown to be as large as ER, and really needs some help with its organization. It needs to go into a subboard.

Luckily, somebody has thought of this eventuality by making the ER subboard technically an ER-sized game subboard. So it gets shunted into there next to the possibly much, much larger four-year-old ER, where it is now a minority presence and likely will be for years to come, stuck amidst a sea of ER subthreads.

Now, I don't think the GM of this purely hypothetical game will be very happy about that. Hence why a dedicated ER subboard is, in my opinion, the more honest and desirable alternative.

[Lenglon]

I agree with Harry Baldman here, just have a properly labeled ER subboard and have done with it. Compromise isn't always the right answer. It sounds nicer to try to compromise and speak for the middle ground, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea. In this case, a compromise would give us the worst of both worlds, not the best. do it or don't. being halfhearted gets us nowhere. I'd prefer to have an ER subboard over not, but I'd also rather have no subboard at all over a vague-general-purpose-'biggame'-subboard.

[DarkArtemisFowl]

We have hundreds of threads within the RtD subforum, and I can't say that threads go too unnoticed in there despite the fact that ER is huge, along with some others games. I do see where you are coming from, however, but I still support the huge-type subforum ideal, because I doubt ER will reach an amount of threads that drowns out any other game placed in that subforum. Besides, if another game comes along to reach the size of ER, it's probably likely that people will already have invested their attention to this game and want it moved to the subforum for organization. Creating multiple subforums will make subforums seem, at most, 10-20 threads long.

((I am also half-playing the Devil's Advocate here, offering opposition for the sake of opposition at some points. But I do truly support a general subforum.))

[GreatWyrmGold]

I chose a general purpose forum with no other current candidates because it is a compromise. You still get a forum that organizes ER well, and does not support the argument that people may use of favoritism, since the bar will be set for games that truly do need organization on the level of ER. Sure, it may not come for years, the point of this is to have the greatest acceptance from both sides.

But there's one more problem with that compromise that just occurred to me. Imagine this: ER has existed for two years, more or less, and gets to be the first and only game to move to a subboard that, in all but name, is its own. Immediately after that, a bright new mind conceives a wonderful idea for an RTD and starts to diligently work on it. Two years later, this RTD has grown to be as large as ER, and really needs some help with its organization. It needs to go into a subboard.
Luckily, somebody has thought of this eventuality by making the ER subboard technically an ER-sized game subboard. So it gets shunted into there next to the possibly much, much larger four-year-old ER, where it is now a minority presence and likely will be for years to come, stuck amidst a sea of ER subthreads.
Now, I don't think the GM of this purely hypothetical game will be very happy about that. Hence why a dedicated ER subboard is, in my opinion, the more honest and desirable alternative.

Yes, so much worse to have it drowned out by half a dozen threads of a single game than hundreds of little games.
There are arguments against the more general subboard, but that isn't one of the stronger ones...

(Also, didn't ER celebrate its FIRST birthday not long ago?)

[Lenglon]

(Also, didn't ER celebrate its FIRST birthday not long ago?)

((timestamp of ER's OP: April 01, 2012))

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh.
...
My bad.

[Harry Baldman]

Yes, so much worse to have it drowned out by half a dozen threads of a single game than hundreds of little games.
There are arguments against the more general subboard, but that isn't one of the stronger ones...

(Also, didn't ER celebrate its FIRST birthday not long ago?)

If the game is as big as ER, it wouldn't get drowned out in the RTD board (see current state of ER threads). At all. In the ER subboard, the expansion of which I cannot accurately predict, but can venture a guess that it might increase in size, that might not be the case. That's missing the point of the argument, though, as the problem is less that it gets drowned out and more the fact that it gets relocated to a space that has, for maybe many years, been the ER subboard. Let me put it this way:

ER: congratulations! You've become huge and popular. You get your own subboard.
Other, later game: congratulations! You've become huge and popular. To the ER subboard with you!

Not only does it involve moving the game to a board that, whether you like it or not, has acquired the identity of the ER subboard, it carries an unpleasant connotation of becoming second banana to an ancient behemoth simply because it came before you, and possibly a distinct feeling (unvoiced, probably) that the new game isn't all that welcome there.

We have hundreds of threads within the RtD subforum, and I can't say that threads go too unnoticed in there despite the fact that ER is huge, along with some others games. I do see where you are coming from, however, but I still support the huge-type subforum ideal, because I doubt ER will reach an amount of threads that drowns out any other game placed in that subforum. Besides, if another game comes along to reach the size of ER, it's probably likely that people will already have invested their attention to this game and want it moved to the subforum for organization. Creating multiple subforums will make subforums seem, at most, 10-20 threads long.

((I am also half-playing the Devil's Advocate here, offering opposition for the sake of opposition at some points. But I do truly support a general subforum.))

As for ER's hugeness, we can't use the present situation as a suitable reference because ER is still only three threads wide (well, I suppose four, counting this one). If it were eight threads, we'd have more of a problem. And, as I mentioned, the problem isn't so much getting drowned out by ER as the fact that any other large games would be put somewhere that is solidly ER's territory. Besides, just because a subboard is 10-20 threads long does not mean that there shouldn't be one.

[Avis-Mergulus]

But basically, isn't that the same as making a sub-board for new games, and then moving them to the main sub-board when they become long-runners? Can we even move threads around between sub-boards? The question is whether we want to have a board where people who plan to make a long-ass game post (which is kinda stupid, who even plans for that sort of thing) or a board where long-running, consistently updating stuff gets dumped. Sorry if I'm not getting something, late to the whole discussion.

[Harry Baldman]

But basically, isn't that the same as making a sub-board for new games, and then moving them to the main sub-board when they become long-runners? Can we even move threads around between sub-boards? The question is whether we want to have a board where people who plan to make a long-ass game post (which is kinda stupid, who even plans for that sort of thing) or a board where long-running, consistently updating stuff gets dumped. Sorry if I'm not getting something, late to the whole discussion.

Glad to have new people anytime, actually. We need more people not so closely associated with ER to post here. And the question right now, unless I'm missing something, is whether it would be more advisable to have a board for ER exclusively (also, yes, it is possible to move threads between boards) or a board where all games the current size and thread count of ER (a category that currently includes only ER, and for the longest time will only include ER, I believe) could be shuffled off to. There wouldn't be a board where you can just post games with the promise that they'll be long eventually.

The whole matter is really more for the benefit of ER than anything else in the first place, with a subboard promising new opportunities for thread organization that you simply couldn't get away with without feeling obnoxious in the RTD board.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Well, then, it seems to me that, even if we avoid the whole "favouritism" bit, piecewise is planning to end ER in several years. What're we going to do with an ER-only subforum then? Besides, if we called the subforum "Long-runners" or something like that, the whole "Master race" thing gets dropped, because we are only moving them to make space for new games, seeing as games that are consistently updating long-runners take up front page space.
On an unrelated note, I'll join ER as soon as I read the whole main mission thread, no sooner. I'm currently only on the bit where they're all landing and both shuttles get shot to hell, after the Puddle mission.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Can we even move threads around between sub-boards?

Yes. Heck, the normal users can (with their own threads).

On an unrelated note, I'll join ER as soon as I read the whole main mission thread, no sooner.

You fool.

[Avis-Mergulus]

On an unrelated note, I'll join ER as soon as I read the whole main mission thread, no sooner.

You fool.

A brave, brave fool, I hope?

[Harry Baldman]

A brave, brave fool, I hope?

It's definitely a quest worth attempting. And one you can probably succeed at if you've gotten that far already. Then again, the game will get more diluted as you go on. Also, the on-ship thread is, in my opinion, at least equally important. And the secondary mission thread will help as well.

[Avis-Mergulus]

A brave, brave fool, I hope?

It's definitely a quest worth attempting. And one you can probably succeed at if you've gotten that far already. Then again, the game will get more diluted as you go on. Also, the on-ship thread is, in my opinion, at least equally important. And the secondary mission thread will help as well.

Yeah, the ship thread is my problem. I get to the bit where the team sends an infected file to Steve, and everybody who's on the ship starts dropping in with cryptic comments. So of course, I have to go read it, and dig through tons of weapon-design wankery before I get to to the point.

[Taricus]

Alright, as an outside opinion (In relative terms.), I would hazard that setting it up on it's own forum (Not a sub-board, it's own actual forum) would be, by far, the best option. There's be plenty of room to grow and such, far more organised since all the chatter would be put into a sub-board of that forum.

Any archival problems can be worked around by locking the threads here after some notice, and them linking to them from the new site. The only major problem is the fact that being it's own site means that he has to pay for the server, which might be a bit of a dent in the idea.