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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette: OOC and NEW PLAYER INFO  (Read 2491386 times)

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3645 on: May 10, 2014, 10:45:32 pm »

Who cares about efficiency when you have black hole cannons?
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3646 on: May 10, 2014, 11:21:02 pm »

Who cares about efficiency when you have black hole cannons?
When my ER character first got the shackle, I hoped it was some sort of antimatter cannon. Maybe the Shackles have a button combination to shoot a small black hole at somebody.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3647 on: May 10, 2014, 11:44:39 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation


Extremely basically, matter/antimatter particle pairs come into existence all the time, then quickly destroy each other.  Near a black hole, sometimes one of the two falls into the event horizon while the other escapes.  This translates into energy lost by the black hole, which is often described as evaporation.


I'm sure one of the more sciencey types will come by and point out errors, but that's the nutshell answer.

Like GWG said - without diving into quantum mechanics, that's about the best you'll get.

Also, it's just really come to mind while I was perusing the article that small black holes would make really good 'explosives' (in terms of size, not mass). A hole with a mass of 2.28 × 10^5 kg would evaporate in 1 second, releasing total energy of 5 × 10^6 megatons.

We have manipulators that should be capable of creating black holes, and possibly 'containing' them (stopping them from emitting Hawking radiation and evaporating). We could potentially make black hole cannons for warships, given enough power, and size of the automanips used. Probably would be horrifically inefficient, though.

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renegadelobster

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3648 on: May 10, 2014, 11:53:55 pm »

Another schlock reader, I take it?  :) Also, we now need black hole cannons for any future ships. We really just want the UWM to just say "fuck this, we're out." And just give up their ships  :D
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3649 on: May 11, 2014, 12:41:22 am »

Been getting a slight hankering for this lately. Can anyone fill me in on what happened after the bombardment ended? Are we still boarding/dealing with the consequences of boarding?
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kisame12794

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3650 on: May 11, 2014, 12:46:11 am »

Yeah, we're just wrapping up the boarding actions. Team G has likely suffered a TPK, with just Renen having a chance of being in big enough pieces to be recovered.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3651 on: May 11, 2014, 09:03:57 am »

Who cares about efficiency when you have black hole cannons?
*raises hand*

Who cares about efficiency when you have black hole cannons?
When my ER character first got the shackle, I hoped it was some sort of antimatter cannon. Maybe the Shackles have a button combination to shoot a small black hole at somebody.
Remember what I said about the scariness radius of black holes? Unless they're small enough that they "evaporate" almost instantly, anywhere in the atmosphere would fall within that radius if you're on the planet.


Anyways, black hole cannons.
Simplest way I can see them working is that we have a big gun barrel on a ship, which we can put rocks in; an automanip compresses all material in a certain area down to a single point or so, then flings it outwards. Also, the inside of the barrel and the front of the ship need to be hardened against Hawking radiation one way or another. Hopefully, the Hawking radiation will be screwing with the enemy ships.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3652 on: May 11, 2014, 09:31:35 am »

We already have grav shells. Why do we need black hole cannons when we have something that does a similar job cheaper and better? You probably wouldn't be able to do much with the black hole unless you have ghost ship level of power and by then you're better off using a much wider attack, unless you're trying to kill something small yet all powerful like the AM.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3653 on: May 11, 2014, 12:32:58 pm »

We wouldn't be using the gravity of the black hole. We would be using the sheer amount of energy it emits when it evaporates.

It would go thus: automanip creates black hole, another automanip contains it (stopping it from emitting Hawking radiation and evaporating), and a third automanip flings it. The second automanip is set to release containment at a specific range or on command, at which point the now unrestrained micro black hole emits an insane amount of energy and evaporates within a second.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3654 on: May 11, 2014, 01:02:01 pm »

Still seems like an awfully expensive way to build a high yield bomb. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use antimatter? Have a few particle accelerators create it and then some magnetic bottles to hold it?

I guess it all depends on the price of automanipulators and whether or not it's cheaper to store superdense matter instead of dense antimatter.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3655 on: May 11, 2014, 01:43:44 pm »

Still seems like an awfully expensive way to build a high yield bomb. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use antimatter? Have a few particle accelerators create it and then some magnetic bottles to hold it?

I guess it all depends on the price of automanipulators and whether or not it's cheaper to store superdense matter instead of dense antimatter.
You don't need superdense matter. In fact, small black holes would evaporate more rapidly, giving a more acute dosage.
And antimatter relies a lot more on non-automanips, while the black hole gun only needs them. Creating and storing a lot of antimatter, for months or years on end, before flinging at enemy ships...or packing a couple automanips and picking up some asteroidal debris every so often?
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3656 on: May 11, 2014, 02:03:14 pm »

It seems our regular ol' bigass ship mounted gauss cannons do the job pretty good though. At least in terms of ship killing. Maybe if you needed to, ah, 'sterilise' a region from orbit it could be a viable alternative.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3657 on: May 11, 2014, 02:24:57 pm »

I started writing about the pros and cons of the various storage methods, but then I realised this problem has a very simple argument that demonstrates the preferable usage scenarios of antimatters and black holes:

The black hole cannon would be used in space combat, correct? Because using it in atmospheric combat seems even more unnecessary than using megaton bombs or fusion instigators.

So it would probably work somewhat like this: compress M mass units of matter into a black hole, attach it to a container and then fling it at the enemy and have the container stop working at the appropriate time.
Or to simplify it further, attach the compressor automanipulator on a standard coilgun shell (weighing M mass units), fire it and activate the automanipulator when in range of the enemy ship.

The operation of the antimatter equivalent could be simplified as the following: Load a standard coilgun shell at the ship's normal cannon. Attach an antimatter converter automanipulator on it. Fire the slug and then convert it to antimatter as soon as it exits  the barrel of the coilgun (or if it's cheaper, have the coilgun be a vacuum and convert it before firing it, since it will presumably retain the same physical properties).

So in the first case, assuming the black hole converts its entire mass to energy, we have M mass units equivalent amount of energy released somewhere near or on the enemy ship.
In the second case, the antimatter shell would release 2*M mass unit equivalent amount of energy somewhere on the ship (plus a probably insignificant (compared to the energy released by the annihilation) amount of kinetic energy), assuming it hits and all of it is annihilated.

So a black hole cannon would have less energy released and would be slightly more complicated to use, since depending on how you build it it can depend on two automanipulators, but you are certain that all of its energy will be released, even if it doesn't hit, allowing you to use it as a sort of flak cannon. Still, not all of the energy would reach the intended target without a direct hit, since it would radiate towards all locations equally, with the intensity dropping with relation to the inverse square law.

An antimatter cannon seems slightly simpler to implement, since it only needs one automanipulator and it can produce twice the amount of energy with the same mass, but it needs to hit the target for it to work and it is likely that not all of the antimatter will react with matter, bringing the amount of energy released somewhere below but still close to 2M mass unit equivalent amount of energy. You could increase the chances of it hitting a target by detonating the shell mid-flight, essentially turning it into buckshot, which would make it less powerful but more likely to cause severe damage assuming one of the fragments hits a ship.

Of course, in both conditions, not all energy created would be transferred to the targets since much would escape as radiation.
Plus, the lingering antimatter could keep travelling and ruin someone's day in the near or far future, while the black hole is more "environmentally friendly".

That is, assuming the act of converting a shell into antimatter and compressing a shell into a black hole require a roughly equally priced automanipulator.
Price could become a factor once you start weighing in that you could create antimatter conventionally, without the use of automanipulators, so then it would become a question of whether or not it is preferable (read cheaper and easier) to create automanipulators or antimatter and whether or not the risk of storing antimatter is greater than the risk of storing automanipulators.

Don't forget, automanips can be as dangerous as antimatter. Who's to say that a stray shot hitting your automanipulator storage won't cause an overload that would cause your entire ship or even nearby ships to collapse into a temporary black hole or have your entire fleet ripped apart by gravity distortions?

So, those are my thoughts on the two weapons. It all depends on what you want. Black holes seem to be "safer" but less destructive, while antimatter seems more destructive but also a bit more reliant on good targeting and luck and overall slightly more dangerous. Both are stupidly dangerous and should be used with caution, if at all.

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3658 on: May 11, 2014, 03:07:02 pm »

Antimatter doesn't work as a projectile weapon. The initial burst of energy from the shell contacting the target will counteract the shell's own inertia, and if the shell has enough speed the energy will disperse the shell and vent the antimatter backwards. It'll be a big blast, sure, but only a fraction of the antimatter will annihilate with the target. The buckshot approach is better, but can mean that more of the shot misses the target, even if the individual projectiles have a higher percentage of their mass annihilating.

A blackhole will function more like a self-detonating explosive, and is more likely to deliver its full damage. If the system can be made to work, it will be more effective than an antimatter cannon.

Using good old relativistic kinetic weapons is still the simplest and cheapest way to cause massive damage though.
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Re: Einsteinian Roulette OOC
« Reply #3659 on: May 11, 2014, 03:17:01 pm »

I stated above that "it is likely that not all of the antimatter will react with matter". Also, the shell is not a solid unbreakable sphere. Yes, some of the energy will cause some of the antimatter to stop or be repelled but the shell is fired at insane seeds and will crumple and shatter on impact, ensuring more of it hits the target. I do not currently posses any supercomputers with which to run simulations on the matter, but my gut tells me that a large part of it would hit the target. If that's such a big problem, you can always make it explode/break apart a small distance from the target, ensuring that all of the energy is transferred.
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