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[Egan_BW]

I think along with this we should have simple detectors (how strong,  what direction.) to standard MK I equipment. That way  even one-mission Con grunts can know what's happening and act appropriately.

[Ozarck]

To be honest, I kinda wish PW would have let the chips fall where they would, both with Doom Arms in this last incident, and with M19. upon reflection though, I recall someone saying that Dester might not have survived his on ship experiences had PW done the same with an action or two of his, so a younger, more naive Ozarck might have gotten royally pissed and had no fun whatsoever. So I hold no real opinion, neither of the "least likely to kill an entire team / a significant chunk of the layabouts," nor of the "sppess meggick sensers."

[Parisbre56]

I don't have enough data to judge the new system. All we have is a vague description of "more realistic". What exactly would that mean though? I'm not expecting you to describe every detail of the system right now, but could you at least give us a vague example of combat for the three combat oriented classes (four if you include aux) against each other and an example for character progression within those classes? Even a very vague one? Just something to give us a better indication of how things would work? Otherwise, I'm going with "NO", simply because it's the least effort and more certain.

[Gentlefish]

PW plays nice with newbies.

Of course, this means asking "Are you sure" and temp-deading you unless you roll sepctacularly poorly, and then even only once.

[Ozarck]

I don't have enough data to judge the new system. All we have is a vague description of "more realistic". What exactly would that mean though? I'm not expecting you to describe every detail of the system right now, but could you at least give us a vague example of combat for the three combat oriented classes (four if you include aux) against each other and an example for character progression within those classes? Even a very vague one? Just something to give us a better indication of how things would work? Otherwise, I'm going with "NO", simply because it's the least effort and more certain.

More realistically, i.e. dangerously?

So a gunslinger character w/ little protection can't do much against space magic, while those that invest in boring amps and manips and automanips and most importantly sensors can? Or would this work some other way?

Thats basically the thing. A real amp user would just fry people from a good distance away without being obvious. The whole "Sphere of heat in the center of mass" thing you guys like. Someone with a sensor could see it coming and dodge, someone without would be boned.

Thats the reality of Space magic used against you like you can use it against others.

I think this is what he was getting at with "more realistic." Not focused on numbers and strict combat technicalities, but the game world no longer ignoring certain sound strategies and tactics. The world becomes more dangerous, because it takes your skills and abilities more seriously.

[Lenglon]

amp vs amp becomes more about creativity than about "power level".
Player amp vs Enemy conventional becomes unchanged
Enemy amp vs Player conventional becomes more lethal
Player conventional vs Enemy amp becomes much more effective
Enemy conventional vs Player amp becomes unchanged

mechanics changed:
players can purchase a space magic detection system in some form, details To Be Determined
enemy ampers stop pulling their punches and will use invisible instant-kill attacks similar to how player ampers have fought at all times.

side effect: fights against enemies like the Amp Specialist no longer require the Amp Specialist to flat ignore conventional attacks, making conventional attacks upon such boss enemies viable.
my votes is yes

[NJW2000]

So we all have to buy space magic detectors and protectors and shields rather than crazy fun weaponisms? It's a scam I say a scam.

[Parisbre56]

The problem is I can't imagine it or can't understand it. Why would someone with a conventional weapon have a better chance against an amp  specialist when they can use their amp sense to fry your brain the moment you are in range and stop anything you throw at them? How would that help ampers when he can kill them before they even know where he is? Wouldn't that make your only choices either laying a trap and hoping the amp specialist passes by it and doesn't react fast enough to save himself or using overkill weapons like nukes or hoping you can zerg rush him and hope you overwhelm him with small arms fire before he kills everyone? Either we have different understanding of things or more things will change besides missions where we face enemy ampers becoming more difficult and more lethal and requiring extra equipment. Or I misunderstood something.

[Egan_BW]

It makes things cooler. Imagine hunting for Amp specialists and you look down at your magic detector and you're like "they're in the godsdamn vents." And then your head melts.
VOTE YES

[Pancaek]

As a probably soon to be ex-amp person: with the info we've got right now I don't really like it. Getting enough tokens to buy all the neat shit you'd want is hard enough without throwing in some space magical geiger counters that you should probably buy unless you want to die. We've already got a whole thing going where most of the time it's just better to buy the safe/proven/boring option instead of that piece of equipment that seems really cool but is probably less useful than laser rifle #whatever.

I'm personally not very fond of lasers, but that doesn't really have anything to do with anything said here. Just throwing that out there. 

[Nikitian]

Welp. There goes the first perma-death on M21.

-snip-
Player conventional vs Enemy amp becomes much more effective
-snip-
side effect: fights against enemies like the Amp Specialist no longer require the Amp Specialist to flat ignore conventional attacks, making conventional attacks upon such boss enemies viable.

Please check this with Piecewise. There is absolutely no indication in his post text that he wants to introduce that particular spin, I'm afraid (he mentions "having to find ways to let non-exo/uncons have fun too", but that might or might not come, and the poll itself mentions nothing on the matter). The question is: would you still vote "yes" if both parts I quoted remained unchanged instead?

[Devastator]

I'd figure it'll be like this.

Enemy amp vs Friendly amp = large boost to friendly amp  Enemy amp users will be more dangerous on paper, but ampers will be able to defend against them now.  Enemy ampers will not be able to defend against friendly ampers, giving them the win.

Player amp vs Enemy conventional = about the same, enemies will remain utterly toothless.

Enemy amp vs Player conventional = easier on conventional players, as players will have access to defensive equipment roughly nerfing the more efficient enemy amp users.  They will remain equally capable of killing the amp users, but now will not be killable in reverse.

I'm against it.  I'm with Pancaek.. it's another thing you need to buy to not-die, and if everyone gets it free, it's still another straight advantage to the HMRC.

Also, Lenglon, both conventional and amp users will be just as potent in the attack against enemy amp users.  Both will get buffed on defense.  It's not about strategy if only one side can hurt the other, which is what happens amp on amp.  PC on amp for a con user is both sides not being able to hurt each other.  Amp on amp is PC can hurt amper, but amper can't hurt PC.  In both cases, the PCs are better off due to having better equipment available to them that the enemies will not have.

Lastly, amp use isn't about creativity.  The best strategy is go for the simple killshot, every time.  That's not being creative.

[Devastator]

Also, man, M21, it's really satisfying to see that attempting to consume the evil god was, in fact, a bad idea.

[NJW2000]

If you have to buy it, and it's another thing you should really buy if you don't want a crazy glass cannon just crap and a bit more customised character, I don't like it, compulsory waste of tokens.

But if it's free, what's the point? Why is it such a great change to the system? Don't we like things the way they are now enough?

[Nikitian]

Also, man, M21, it's really satisfying to see that attempting to consume the evil god was, in fact, a bad idea.

Funny enough, and as much as I'd possibly want to reach that conclusion by now, we haven't yet got there. There is not enough data yet to indicate that consuming an alien deity is harmful; it's pissing it off (or just delaying/interfering? It's hard to say not knowing alien psychology) that kills you for real.