Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Devastator]

A reasonable alternative assessment? (Of side effects, though.)

Maybe.  Lets see if PW kicks in on that about RC's direct question about consequences of Green Storm.  I though most of the less-level ups were due to physical damage, rather than brain damage.  Half-bodies, physically melted..  and the automanip caused cellular damage, so I can't say that line means 'green storm'.

If it's just going to be 'everyone rolled really well', well, that's untestable, as we don't have infomation on that.  If anyone took override related damage, I'm wrong.  If the alternative is something with zero information in favor or against, I'm going to have to back a different theory at this time.

[Pancaek]

I haven't really been following anything outside of M21. Can someone TL;DR the discussion? I think it's about the steve override thing being used without being asked first, but I just skimmed the conversation.

[Devastator]

I'm mostly just complaining that M22 is being treated as an unquestionable success despite it being very easy to interpret as a failure, along with the Steve-override having zero consequences to the players in it, despite it supposedly being extremely risky.

[Lenglon]

came to a possible solution to the IC justification for getting the micromanagement on some missions backed off. talking with RC about it now because it involves getting into a verbal fight with Miya.

Heh, nice, it will be fun watching Lyra of all people shouting down Miyamoto.
Only bad thing (for me) is that I had an entire speech prepared should he had chosen to say anything about Flint's behaviour to him.

No guarantees, need to talk with him on it. might not work out.

[Parisbre56]

came to a possible solution to the IC justification for getting the micromanagement on some missions backed off. talking with RC about it now because it involves getting into a verbal fight with Miya.

Heh, nice, it will be fun watching Lyra of all people shouting down Miyamoto.
Only bad thing (for me) is that I had an entire speech prepared should he had chosen to say anything about Flint's behaviour to him.

No guarantees, need to talk with him on it. might not work out.

Yeah, sure, I don't really mean it's bad, just joking.

[piecewise]

How did that get locked? Sorry guys.

[Xantalos]

I was wondering, we've had bigger IC shitstorms that didn't get the thread locked

[Harry Baldman]

Step One: condition players to put OOC in OOC thread rather than on-ship thread.
Step Two: at some point, lock the OOC thread.
Step Three: enjoy lovely lack of OOC chatter.

[Devastator]

Heh.

I think my thoughts are player-agency related as well, but in the other way.  If the mission objectives are so easy that it's basically impossible to fail, is there room for a player to make a difference?  You get your pay, your level ups, the overall war is won..

I mean, seriously, I did everything I could to get killed, and nobody would kill me.  I don't think there should be any wonder as to why I feel the game is very easy, and there are basically no consequences to taking any action.

Especially with seeing things like the override button come off with no penalty.  It turned an extremely dangerous situation into a win, and not through good play or doing anything special.  Just by pushing a button, essentially.

At the end of the day, the team gets to fly away from a devastated once-friendly colony, with one dead, and almost zero information on what actually happened, other than confirming that it was a UWM counter-attack.  But when it comes to the war, this will be considered a success, despite being easy enough that a single drone could have done everything the players did, by going down, taking a sample, riding an elevator down, and then dying, followed by Steve bombarding the colony from orbit.

The only guy who could have botched that mission harder was Xan, but you win, because you didn't Xan it up.

Really, it's a failure from a neutral point of view.  From the point of view of a special-forces team, it's a bad failure, as it's a failure, the team is down a man, you lost plenty of sods, and the Sword wasted it's time shipping the elite team around for a job that could have been done by a drone.  I'll be happy if you can call it one.

[Toaster]

A few points:

1)  It's not true nobody died.  Tek was sacrificed by Steve to kill the AoP.
2)  More people didn't die because of said sacrifice.  It took a manip overload to kill; without a manip available to stop it, it would have continued killing people, and probably up to everyone, green storm or no.
3)  The whole colony was already dead.  This was an ambush mission, pure and simple.  There wasn't really a "win" condition; only a fail condition (everybody dies.)  We know what happened to the colony, there was no one to save, the AoP ambushing us is dead, and the team mostly got out alive.  I don't see that as anything but a success.  Not a GREAT success, sure, but the main goal was met.
4)  The UWM butchered an entire civilian colony to set a trap for us.  I don't think negative attention for us is a factor here.


EDIT:  Lars hasn't responded to his PM yet because fleshy/fullbot will make a difference in his response.

[Lenglon]

came to a possible solution to the IC justification for getting the micromanagement on some missions backed off. talking with RC about it now because it involves getting into a verbal fight with Miya.

Heh, nice, it will be fun watching Lyra of all people shouting down Miyamoto.
Only bad thing (for me) is that I had an entire speech prepared should he had chosen to say anything about Flint's behaviour to him.

No guarantees, need to talk with him on it. might not work out.

Yeah, sure, I don't really mean it's bad, just joking.

I meant that the idea might not work, and needs some details hashed out. no guarantees that anything of the kind will occur.

[Devastator]

1. Assuming it's a trap is a matter of speculation only.  For all you know, the AoP might have only been left behind while waiting on it's evacuation in a few years.

2.  I don't know if a manip overload was required to kill it.  I also don't know if the manip overload actually killed it.  After all, you survived the manip overload just fine.

3.  Again, you're assuming the goal of the enemy was to ambush you, and not, say, just to wipe out the colony.  It just as well might have been to gather information on the response to an attack.  I don't think you have firm information on the goals of the UWM to make a statement like that.

4.  You have no way to stop the UWM from wiping out more colonies the same way.  You don't know how the AoP landed there, you don't know how they shipped the manipulator in, and they have no reason not to try it again.

I don't think PW could have given you more goals from mission start, assuming he wanted it to be a suprise what you ran into.  If this mission was in a video game, I would be expecting a different set of objectives to appear once you know what you're dealing with.

Labelling it as a victory is like labelling an evacuation as a victory.  Even if it was a successful operation, as far as the war is concerned, it does not bring you closer to victory.  When PW looks at the wiki a year and a half from now, I don't want him seeing that as a successful mission to throw in your win coloumn, as the UWM wiped a colony and you can't stop them from doing it again.

[Xantalos]

We could probably stop it from happening again by telling ARM colonies to look in mysterious packages they receive.

[Devastator]

After the last experience with the boxes?  Heh.

Reading it again, there was no confirmed kill/no kill of the AoP, and at least something survived on the surface to shoot at the leaving shuttle, and you have no idea what that is.

It's also nice to see the big giant green apology letters to everyone about how this is going to hurt, followed by exactly one person dying.

[Toaster]

Those points were from an OOC perspective, meaning I believe the mission was designed by PW to be an ambush.

Also, I forgot point 5:

5)  We could have been wrecked by the automanip if we hadn't gone to the bottom floor first.