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[Radio Controlled]

@Syvarris: You won't get it. Doc never does the same modifications twice - it's 'too boring'.

Plus, piecewise likes to keep things balanced (read: difficult) and thus will not give you a mod unless you are willing to kill Xan. And that might attract the attention of our Buddy Cops Generals.

EDIT: Also added some info in the NPC page and created a redirect for it: einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/NPC

Thanks man, nice to see people still adding to that thing.

By the way, if there are general suggestions or complaints with it, don't be afraid to voice them, here or on the discussion page of the wiki.

@syv: tell him to transform you into a crystalmonster. Now there's a challenge!

[Parisbre56]

@syv: tell him to transform you into a crystalmonster. Now there's a challenge!

Read an article once about some scientists finding some self replicating patterns in plasma. Ask the doctor to turn you into an energy being.

[Unholy_Pariah]

You don't get it. Your kludgebot required one bad roll to kill people--and given that both critfails and overshots are bad, anyone who needed it (ie anyone who wasn't senior enough to have a decomp) would have about a one-in-three chance of causing a catastrophe.

The artillery malfunctioning? That was a one-in-eighteen chance.
That's more than three-quarters of an order of magnitude of difference. You can't claim that they're functionally identical in risk.

On paper your statement makes sense.  In practice, well at least three bunkers got hit, and the Thundertron overloaded its weapon into the enemy.  So at the moment it would seem that the artillery is more dangerous than the Thundertron despite what probability says.

Which is irrelevant to the point I'm making--that the artillery should not be expected to be more dangerous than the kludgebot.

Yet it is completely relevant to the point we are making, which is that the artillery is in fact more dangerous than the thundertron.
Also there are six lots of artillery with chances to critfail or overshoot every turn compared to a single thundertrons  chance to overshoot only, that kinda makes me expect the artillery to be more dangerous even on paper.

Okay youve completely missed my point, again, but yeah lets just argue this point.

My thundertron cannot critfail because i specifically gave it to an aux user with a +1 bonus, overshots deal damage at their target with harmful side effects so it wont hurt any teammates unless they are standing either in front of the gun or next to the target. That makes the thundertron safer than the artillery in all regards unless a character like, lets say miyamoto or renen, decides to run into melee and becomes at risk.

You're so confident that overshots can't hurt teammates, it's hilarious. I'm sure Jim would be glad to talk with you about that.
Or Feyri. Or--actually, any of the veterans.

Go back and actually read my post, i never said overshoots cant hurt teammates.
I said that it will only hurt teammeates between you and the target or around the target area, oh and half the time overshots just come out as holding the trigger down until you run out of ammo, overheating the weapon or killing the target you tried wounding.
Overshots are not guaranteed to be dangerous and often they are merely detrimental or an excessive application of force.

[Parisbre56]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/weird-life.htm
The plasma things I was talking about. And they're crystals too!

[Radio Controlled]

which is that the artillery is in fact more dangerous than the thundertron.

If we can charge a bonus for those that'll hopefully change. We still haven't heard from PW on this though, so it remains to be seen how he'll handle that.

Also there are six lots of artillery with chances to critfail or overshoot every turn compared to a single thundertrons  chance to overshoot only, that kinda makes me expect the artillery to be more dangerous even on paper.

I think you should compare things one-by-one in a discussion like this. There is 2/6 chance for overshoot, 1/6 chance at a 2 with the clankerbot. There's 2/36 chance of friendly fire for a single gun. If there were more scrapbots, the odds would be different, so I'd say comparing 1 bot to 8 guns doesn't match up.

Read an article once about some scientists finding some self replicating patterns in plasma. Ask the doctor to turn you into an energy being.

That would be cool, but highly impractical if the enemy carries around lightning rods or Faraday cages (and what sane man wouldn't really?)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Yet it is completely relevant to the point we are making, which is that the artillery is in fact more dangerous than the thundertron.

Which is not only false, but also not what the argument was ever about.

Also there are six lots of artillery with chances to critfail or overshoot every turn compared to a single thundertrons  chance to overshoot only, that kinda makes me expect the artillery to be more dangerous even on paper.

Except that
A. probability isn't additive.
B. the thundertron makes multiple rolls per turn; the artillery doesn't even make one roll every turn.
C. The artillery was undeniably contributing to the defense of Hephaestus, destroying large numbers of enemy troops. The Thundertron...I don't think it has one confirmed kill, certainly not enough to justify the RU that Radio_Controlled gave for it.
D. P(Artillery Accident)*6=(1/18)*6=(1/3)=P(Thundertron screwup)

Go back and actually read my post, i never said overshoots cant hurt teammates.
I said that it will only hurt teammeates between you and the target or around the target area, oh and half the time overshots just come out as holding the trigger down until you run out of ammo, overheating the weapon or killing the target you tried wounding.
Overshots are not guaranteed to be dangerous and often they are merely detrimental or an excessive application of force.

Right. Because there won't be any friendly people in the line of fire. When you're aiming at people all of us want to kill, wielding some of the longest-range weapons in the group, and in a vehicle which (like damn near every combat vehicle known to man) would fall at close range to the enemy without others at closer range. And because that's the only metric of causing harm to Hephaestus.

That would be cool, but highly impractical if the enemy carries around lightning rods or Faraday cages (and what sane man wouldn't really?)

One who didn't see it coming, of course.

[syvarris]

@Syvarris: You won't get it. Doc never does the same modifications twice - it's 'too boring'.

Actually, he will if he's paid.  It's only the free mods that he does for fun.

Plus, piecewise likes to keep things balanced (read: difficult) and thus will not give you a mod unless you are willing to kill Xan. And that might attract the attention of our Buddy Cops Generals.

Well, presumably, if I have to kill Xan for the mod, I won't have to buy it- I'd be his flesh project then.

Which means I can buy a microwave amp.  At which point, it becomes excessively easy to assassinate anyone, except possibly Miyamoto and Milno/Bishop (I forget, which one bought the automanip that regulates temp?).

And if I'm allowed to get the fleshwarp boon first (Which should happen- all previous experiments only had to kill their predecessor after they got their experiment), then framing someone becomes easy.  In fact, Steve Saint may very well disapear, and be replaced by one of the inactive people.

Of course, spanners could be thrown in my plans.  I might have to pay, then fight.  Or have an organized fight.  Or Doc could simply refuse.  Or I might not have enough tokens.

If that happens, I just go the route of AUX specialist with a robobody.  It should be pretty obvious how I can abuse that.  It's actually far more OP than the fleshwarping route, but not as fun to RP.


Oh, and I've wanted to make a char specced for Xan's fleshwarping ever since he got it.  I'm not gonna go for some random other doc project if I can't get it, because they're usually simple, boring, snd vastly limit RP- which this char runs on.


@GWG
You're wrong in your rebuttal to UP.  Each mortar/artillery lot rolls for critfails on it's own.  And the Thundertron has only made one roll per turn in all the turns that it's fought in.  It has not been specifically said to get any kills, but it has been listed as a important thing in damaging the enemy forces several times- usually right next to the artillery.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, even at one roll per turn it's positively simple to prove that it has a higher chance of causing problems than the artillery--all you need to know is that P(x or y)≠5 when P(x)=0.25 and P(y)=0.25*, and basic fractional multiplication.

*P(x or y)=0.4375<0.5

[Unholy_Pariah]

GWG lets put this simply shall we.

The artillery has six chances to either fuck up massively by rolling a 1 or cause side effects by rolling a 6, it then rolls for the severity if these actions but the chance of occurance remains 1 in 3 for each shot fired.
Now because the artillery is firing at the enemy attempting to breach our bunkers that means a 1 will harm teammates and a six will have a high probability of doing the same because they are both in the same firing direction.

The thundertron on the other hand has one chance to roll a 6 or 7 with the capacity to either harm teammates or shut itself down again. But the thing here is that the thundertron is firing away from the bunker instead of towards it like the artillery does and that fact diminishes the chances of friendly fire occuring significantly.

[Alarith]

Yet it is completely relevant to the point we are making, which is that the artillery is in fact more dangerous than the thundertron.

Which is not only false, but also not what the argument was ever about.

What is the argument then?  It seems that you are arguing that the robot is more dangerous to team members than the artillery, using statistics, and UP is arguing that the artillery has caused more problems than the robot, using what has happened in the mission thread.  Seems like an argument about danger to me.

[GreatWyrmGold]

GWG lets put this simply shall we.

The artillery has six chances to either fuck up massively by rolling a 1 or cause side effects by rolling a 6, it then rolls for the severity if these actions but the chance of occurance remains 1 in 3 for each shot fired.

Artillery doesn't "fuck up massively" on any one, or on sixes. piecewise explained how it happened. Didn't you see that? Screwups like the ones we saw were a one in eighteen chance!

Yet it is completely relevant to the point we are making, which is that the artillery is in fact more dangerous than the thundertron.

Which is not only false, but also not what the argument was ever about.

What is the argument then?  It seems that you are arguing that the robot is more dangerous to team members than the artillery, using statistics, and UP is arguing that the artillery has caused more problems than the robot, using what has happened in the mission thread.  Seems like an argument about danger to me.

I was arguing that whoever spotted for, or even ordered, the artillery shots was not as responsible for the destruction it caused as Auron would be for any damage the Thundertron caused, because the artillery's friendly fire had a much lower chance of happening.

[Unholy_Pariah]

Its a 1 in 18 chance of affecting everyone yes, but other severity rolls may still hit bunkers or single out individual teammates. Just because youve rolled well on the save doesnt mean you havent failed, it just means youve failed less horribly.

Actually the chance of the artillery killing us all is much, much higher than that of the thundertron.
Reasons:
Artillery can critfail, thundertron cannot.
Artillery fires towards teammates, thundertron does not.
Artillery fires 6 times per turn, thundertron fires once
Overshots do not always harm to teammates, but when they do its teammates either between the attacker and the target or teammates near the target.
Artillery can fire train cars, thundertron cannot.

[TCM]

Also, TCM: want a brofist? manhug maybe? Secret handshake?

It's all good, I've always got "The College Dropout" with me. That's a classic. Can't believe it's already been a decade since that album came out.

[smurfingtonthethird]

That moment when you realise Dawn of War was released a decade ago.

OH GOD I'M OLD SOMEONE SHOOT ME

[Xantalos]

Just a note, if Steve manages to become like Xan and he finds out about it there's going to be an interesting altercation.
And a disturbing one.