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Author Topic: Quick Farming Math  (Read 2508 times)

Blazebase

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 02:21:36 am »

One tactic that I love to employ on any embark is setting up the earliest form of military and have them manually hunt down and kill any animals that enter the map, one advantage is that I could choose what I want to kill and order them back when ever I want without the fear of losing my dwarves due to hunting accidents....

E.G: Lone hunter vs a pack of pissed off drakes.

It's a good way to train your military and brings it LOTS of meat. At least for me it does. 

Only real draw back is that you need to give them some early gear, less you want them to get kicked/bitten to death by... whatever the hell you may be hunting, and seeing how your above-ground land has been made inhospitable.... The caverns are really one of a few options you got.
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shadowclasper

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2014, 02:30:38 am »

Couldn't you give dwarves a reaction that wasn't strictly butchery but still gave them a soul or a scalp and no meat? Destroy's corpse of the invader, gets scalp and soul? (or just soul?)

Then you could make it so dwarves wouldn't butcher invaders, but they WOULD say, burn the corpses upon the soul pyre to harvest souls?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 02:32:51 am by shadowclasper »
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Hefateus

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2014, 02:33:31 am »

I sacrifice all my extra meat to Armok at the temple and sell some small amount to keep myself in copper coins at Bomreks Bargains.
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Blazebase

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2014, 02:49:07 am »

Couldn't you give dwarves a reaction that wasn't strictly butchery but still gave them a soul or a scalp and no meat? Destroy's corpse of the invader, gets scalp and soul? (or just soul?)

Then you could make it so dwarves wouldn't butcher invaders, but they WOULD say, burn the corpses upon the soul pyre to harvest souls?

I believe there was a point that main sentient races dropped item corpses instead of their bodies and they were used for the bio-lab in order to do research.

I think this would an excellent idea of bring it back so that the butchery wouldn't be overflowing with meat from sentient races.... but that means that their bodies are no longer useable for necromancy, just their feet and hands if you manage to lop them off.

If it were brought back, there should be a reaction in the religion system, being able to either extract a soul from the body and it just leaves ashes as the byproduct (Ashes to ashes.) or just work the body in a tannery for the scalps which could be sacrificed to Armok as a sign of your prowess in battle, and has a chance of rewarding you greatly for it. (Not sure if that already exist in the mod, just kind of spit-balling to see what sticks.)
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shadowclasper

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2014, 03:18:16 am »

No, I mean, can't some reactions use just the corpse? Like Warlocks use an intact warlock's corpse to resurrect one in a special reaction? Can't something similar be done? Only the output isn't a resurrected entity, it's a soul and/or a scalp and the removal of the corpse?

Or am I misunderstanding how warlock resurrection functions and corpses can't be used or anything except butchering type reactions due to hardcoding?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 03:21:58 am by shadowclasper »
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kamikazi1231

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 03:35:13 am »

Going along with the derailment how are souls spawned? Are they already a part of creatures like organs or are they a magic dfhack created reaction? I haven't fought automatons since the addition of souls and was wondering if they leave a soul on death too?

Would it be possible to make them inedible. Then give a workshop reaction that takes an inedible tagged meat and transforms it into edible meat? Only give this reaction to some evil building.
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Meph

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2014, 03:39:42 am »

No, I mean, can't some reactions use just the corpse? Like Warlocks use an intact warlock's corpse to resurrect one in a special reaction? Can't something similar be done? Only the output isn't a resurrected entity, it's a soul and/or a scalp and the removal of the corpse?

Or am I misunderstanding how warlock resurrection functions and corpses can't be used or anything except butchering type reactions due to hardcoding?
they dont use the corpses in reactions, they target them with interactions, thats something completely different.

If I could target corpses directly in reactions I would do it, but its bugged. It wont work.
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shadowclasper

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2014, 04:18:32 am »

dang. I don't suppose an interaction could just transform a corpse into a soul?

edit: Never mind. Even if it could, then you'd just have that whole pause everything due to transformations annoyance going on, which would put an unnecessary gap into the whole dwarven religion. Forget it.

edit2: Back on topic. Best way to test this is to cut down on your population (ignoring food producers) bit by bit and report to us how that changes your food problem. I'd suggest getting a truly EPIC dining hall going on first, same for bedrooms and generally anything you're with. the death toll from your SCIENCE will be epic in scope since it'll basically require killing loads of people slowly through starvation.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 04:24:18 am by shadowclasper »
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Di

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2014, 04:20:31 am »

How about making an immobile creature which extracts souls with short ranged interaction?
The interaction would target FIT_FOR resurrection bodies of those who CAN_SPEAK, RAISE them and transform them into some creature which should suffocate immediately and drop ITEMCORPSE that could be used as soul currently are.
Irc, you can even make that creature go invisible until it dies.
IT_IMMUNE_ tokens could provide means of preventing harvest of citizen corpses or punishing players for attempting that.
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kamikazi1231

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2014, 05:18:22 am »

Another good way to Science up this food problem is do a force embark with say 100 dwarves.  Then use your current calculation to figure out how much food and drink you calculation says they need.  Then use the dfhack points command to give you a ton of points to embark with exactly that much food and drink.  Dig in quickly, burrow them all, then seal off from the outside for good.  Don't let any migrants in, they can just starve on the surface.  Now go about business as usual making legendary rooms and dining halls so deaths won't affect them much.

Don't have any contact with the surface in any way.  Do no farming or brewing at all.  Just let the dwarves hang out, eat, drink, and then record how many days since the start of your game before food and drink completely ran out.  Then you can compare the days they survived to what your calculations say to test it's accuracy.

Might even be worth doing a few science forts.  One you keep everyone busy say, mining and then hauling stone back and forth forever.  The other fort you let them all just hang out and throw parties.  See if the work load changes food/drink consumption and survival time.  I assume that in a busy fort it will last longer.  Dwarves will be hungry while finishing a job then go eat.  But if they are idle they will just go eat right away.  So you may buy valuable days by keeping dwarves very busy.  Or it may go opposite with jobs reducing the counter for food or drink causing them to consume faster. 

You don't even have to wait for them all to die.  If they all eat at a fairly constant rate they should finish off all the food and drink and succumb to it around the same time.  Possibly leaving one or two insane dwarves left who managed to get the last bite or drink.  Just need to know exactly how food lasts.

Edit: A random thought. How's your vermin catcher population?  Do you have any pastured on the food stockpiles? You may be losing food to vermin without realizing it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 08:43:37 am by kamikazi1231 »
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Meph

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2014, 01:26:47 pm »

I am fairly certain that there is no great variation. 2 units of food, 8 units of drink, per dwarf per season is what I remember.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2014, 02:04:28 pm »

A dwarf will eat twice a season and drink four times a season. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Alcohol

Meph

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2014, 02:07:29 pm »

ups. 2 and 4, not 2 and 8. ^^
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black47

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Re: Quick Farming Math
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2014, 02:38:23 pm »

Regardless of your math, how can you be sure it's not just your legendary farmers taking their goddamn time harvesting and planting new seeds? How do you take that extra time into account after your "1 year to mature"?

On medium/big forts my crops are always so out of sync that there's constantly crops that need harvesting at the same time as empty plots that require new seeds.
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