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[smjjames]

My family lost all bank savings in 90s and parents wages was delayed up to 14-16 months at peak. Guess what, we still here. You really understimate endurance and little needs of slaves

Fixed that for you. Because only a mental slave can keep going to work while not being paid for more than a year

A nice remark from a nation of bandits.

And a nice remark from a nation descended from norse 'barbarians'.

Just slinging around insults if that's what we are doing......

You've just insulted the whole Scandinavia.

By implying the Rus are at least in part, descended from Vikings?

I did it in quotes, I don't ACTUALLY think the Norse were barbarians, they're an awesome culture.

Though considering how far the Vikings got around (I think the Byzantines even had Viking mercenaries?), the Rus probably do have some Viking blood going around.

[mainiac]

This is nothing. The Russian will is unbreakable.

Besides the fact that Russian will has been broken by Swedes (1617), Finns (1918), Baltics (1583), Lithuanians (1919), Estonians(1918), Latvians (1920), Poles (1921), Turks (1681), Georgians (1920), Afganis (1989), a bunch of 'stani's I don't feel like looking up, Mongols (14th century in general), Chinese (1652), Japanese (1905), Germans (1917) and the goddamn French (1856), this statement is somewhat true.

Gas is mostly used for heating, not electricity, also as fuel and in some industries. Some EU countries are 100% dependent on Russia for their gas supply, in Germany it's 35% (and 36% for oil). In Germany, heating in almost 50% of homes depends on gas, almost 30% on oil, electricity accounts for just 5,4%.

The small baltics might be completely dependent on the Russians but most of the Russian market isn't countries that can't cope.  Russia only accounts for 25% of overall European natural gas use.

You scaring shits out of me  My family lost all bank savings in 90s and parents wages was delayed up to 14-16 months at peak. Guess what, we still here. You really understimate endurance and little needs of slavs, thats biggest mistake West usually tends to make.

Besides, some EU countries completely depend on our gas (liek Poland is 92% or something) and belt of mediterranean countries quite dependant on our tourists money (it's millions of ppl a year). There is much more to that list but I cba to provide links, because any prooflinks is going to be ignored or refuted anyways.

Poland is even less dependent on natural gas then Europe's average, primarily because they are a major coal producer and use much more coal.  So they "liek" gonna be glad to see a trade war with Russia because that would help their own economy through better coal prices.

I don't really care if you are scared or not.  The numbers don't really care either.  But a simple back of the envelope calculation says that a complete interdiction of Russian imports and exports with Europe would result in a single year 10% GDP reduction from first order effects alone (not counting economic fallout) which could reasonably be extrapolated to the Russian unemployment rate hitting 25%.  I'm sure that an economic collapse worse then the great depression will be no match for Russian indomitable spirit.

[gogis]

My family lost all bank savings in 90s and parents wages was delayed up to 14-16 months at peak. Guess what, we still here. You really understimate endurance and little needs of slaves

Fixed that for you. Because only a mental slave can keep going to work while not being paid for more than a year

A nice remark from a nation of bandits.

And a nice remark from a nation descended from norse 'barbarians'.

Just slinging around insults if that's what we are doing......

You've just insulted the whole Scandinavia.

By implying the Rus are at least in part, descended from Vikings?

I did it in quotes, I don't ACTUALLY think the Norse were barbarians, they're an awesome culture.

I dare to say that barbarians can't be seen as bad on DF forums. Vikings? Barbarians? Isn't that inherently awesome?

[smjjames]

To be fair, Afghanistan also broke the British Empire and sort of broke the US. Not so much broke than 'absolutely tired of this war and want to get the hell outta here'.

[mainiac]

To be fair, Afghanistan also broke the British Empire and sort of broke the US. Not so much broke than 'absolutely tired of this war and want to get the hell outta here'.

To be fair I was just listing the countries that broke the Russians not commenting on the difficulty of the fight.

[gogis]

Besides the fact that Russian will has been broken by Swedes (1617), Finns (1918), Baltics (1583), Lithuanians (1919), Estonians(1918), Latvians (1920), Poles (1921), Turks (1681), Georgians (1920), Afganis (1989), a bunch of 'stani's I don't feel like looking up, Mongols (14th century in general), Chinese (1652), Japanese (1905), Germans (1917) and the goddamn French (1856), this statement is somewhat true.

I stopped reading after that. My eyes keep rolling so hard I can't even read further.

[Sheb]

Actually, the Baltic states won't be dependent on Russian gas for long. A mobile LPG terminal is set to arrive in Riga at the end of the year.

[XXSockXX]

The small baltics might be completely dependent on the Russians but most of the Russian market isn't countries that can't cope.  Russia only accounts for 25% of overall European natural gas use.

Well, actually Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary and Poland get 60-100% of their gas from Russia.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Coping" depends mostly on countries like Norway, the Netherlands and Algeria producing more, possibly the US starting to export and most importantly pipelines. Again, it's possible, but it will take some time.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Aren't Ukranians of the Slavic group as well though?

IMO Slavs are not an superethnic group or some genetically related people but merely a linguistic group. Exactly like people that speak romance languages aren't very related.

I heard that. What is your opinion of Poroshenko? I don't know much about him, but as a billionnaire he doesn't look much different from other people in Ukrainian politics.

Mixed feelings... He is an oligarch. That is a huge problem. He is quite far from nationalistic views. But he is not from that guys who privatized national industry, modernized nothing, paid little to no taxes, and got billions of cash. He actually created workplaces. And without his TV channel revolution would be less likely.

btw, Ukraine had exactly same problems with delayed wages. I wonder, what it tells about UR if he not aknowledged of this fact. And that delay was redeemed eventually.

BTW, my relatives left their jobs after the first month of no paying. I never denied that among Ukrainians we have people with mentality of slaves.

[gogis]

To be fair, Afghanistan also broke the British Empire and sort of broke the US. Not so much broke than 'absolutely tired of this war and want to get the hell outta here'.

To be fair I was just listing the countries that broke the Russians not commenting on the difficulty of the fight.

Despite me being harassed plenty of times here for my poor english skill, you need to revisit your definition of "broken will" phrase. It's better applied to european nations in times of napoleonic wars and WWII. Guess who saved their asses.
Last time I checked, huge territory is still there on the map.

[gogis]

BTW, my relatives left their jobs after the first month of no paying. I never denied that among Ukrainians we have people with mentality of slaves.

And what they did afterwards? We got all our money in the end. Isn't that a suprise your economy in such a state with mentality like that?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You know what is the difference between Europe and Russia?

In Europe, if you'll delay a salary for a week you'll get a riot. In Russia if you delay a salary for a year you'll get "Uh. OK" and later their children say that is a great achievement to endure that kind of treatment.

And what they did afterwards? We got all our money in the end. Isn't that a suprise your economy in such a state with mentality like that?

Varies. Some changed job. Some went farming. Some emigrated. Some started their own business. And our economy is in a bad state exactly because too much people acted like Russians and we don't have enough oil and gas to compensate that

[Owlbread]

You don't know what pain is.

I was going to say something about this line of thought but I think it's best if we drop it. It just takes us into all sorts of unpleasant places and we'll end up talking about abstract nationalist stuff (unbroken will, past atrocities etc) which may distract us from current affairs.

[Dutchling]

Yeah, it's getting a little too cringy.

[mainiac]

Well, actually Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary and Poland get 60-100% of their gas from Russia.

Those countries account for less then 10% of the EU economy and if you remove Poland (a net energy exporter which would benefit more then it would lose) from the list they account for less then 5%.  Remove Poland from the list and Germany's economy is 4 times the size of the remaining countries while France's economy is 3 times the size.

Guess who saved their asses.

England sailors and Spanish guerrillas? (where do you think that word comes from?)

Russians thinking they were the primary defeater of Nappy is about as dumb as Americans thinking they deserve the credit for taking down Hitler.  Russia didn't do the most economic damage (the was England) and Russia didn't do the most military damage (the was Spain) and both England and Spain each did more economic and military damage then Russia.

Nice to know that the Ruskies are just as capable as the Americans in the chauvinism department.