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[GlyphGryph]

I am fiercely against nationalism. Not like anybody believe me anyways.

And what's so bad about nationalism itself? You know, I always thought about it like it is a snake's venom. In very small doses it is a treatment, and a nice one it is, but once you got more than dose, even a slightest bit, it kills you in a horrible way or cripples.
I mean, nothing's wrong with having a position that includes racial compound, but, you know, your own freedom stops where the other man's freedom begins.

The irony is that he's making numerous nationalistic arguments while claiming that. I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing's wrong with having a position that includes racial compound", though.

Is there any actual *thing* happening that we can talk about? Did we talk about Russia banning S.T.A.L.K.E.R yet?

Hu? Really? Well, Pirate Bay to the rescue, I guess. Never played it anyway.

All Ukrainian video games, apparently.

In fact, if you remove ethnic cleansings from Third Reich as well as WWII you get a decent state.

I suspect we have some serious moral, ideological, practical, and historical disagreements about pretty much everything, if you're actually making this  as a real claim. But maybe we're imagining a different set of situations where you could possible get the 3rd Reich but no WWII.

His command of the English language isn't particularly good, apparently.
Comrade Gogi, I'm afraid you should work on your English language skills. The ability to convey your thoughts clearly is crucial if you are engaged in a political shitstorm with foreigners.

I'm not actually sure if this is the problem. I mean, it definitely could be, but I've met "native English speakers" who talk in the exact same (personally) incomprehensible way, but I'm sure any language issues aren't helping. I'm just relieved to discover I'm not the only one have difficulties.

[gogis]

Well, I'd like to echo the refrain I make every time gogis manages to fill up a page - I have no fucking clue what he is saying, ever. He doesn't even seem to agree with himself about anything, or understand the arguments he's making or the end to which they are made, so how am I supposed to figure it out.

His command of the English language isn't particularly good, apparently.

Comrade Gogi, I'm afraid you should work on your English language skills. The ability to convey your thoughts clearly is crucial if you are engaged in a political shitstorm with foreigners.

I think my english skills is just enough to be understood, so I am going to abstain, you know?. It's mostly my hobby, so whatever.

[Owlbread]

I am literally Udmurt. I was born there. But my parents from Chelyabinsk, so I am not sure. As I understood, you are Scot? Well okay. You try and die trying to be a scot? Or what? I am russian. Fuck it. Bigger is better.

Well, that's one of the issues that people like Ukrainian Ranger and myself face. Is it better to be a part of a wider nation? Is "bigger" better? I think smaller countries all over the world tend to be happier places and can address their own problems better. They are also easier to integrate into genuine multinational unions like the EU (I would prefer most of the EU member states to be a bit smaller though).

Bigger countries just tend to cause problems and, more often than not, just become vehicles for small numbers of people to become very, very powerful and wealthy when they form elites.

It's just unfortunate when I see a modern day descendant of a conquered nation so assimilated into the conquerer's realm that they do not think of themselves as distinct anymore, even making the mistake of seeing themselves as being a part of that nation even in antiquity.

[gogis]

I am literally Udmurt. I was born there. But my parents from Chelyabinsk, so I am not sure. As I understood, you are Scot? Well okay. You try and die trying to be a scot? Or what? I am russian. Fuck it. Bigger is better.

Well, that's one of the issues that people like Ukrainian Ranger and myself face. Is it better to be a part of a wider nation? Is "bigger" better? I think smaller countries all over the world tend to be happier places and can address their own problems better. They are also easier to integrate into genuine multinational unions like the EU (I would prefer most of the EU member states to be a bit smaller though).

Bigger countries just tend to cause problems and, more often than not, just become vehicles for small numbers of people to become very, very powerful and wealthy when they form elites.

It's just unfortunate when I see a modern day descendant of a conquered nation so assimilated into the conquerer's realm that they do not think of themselves as distinct anymore, even making the mistake of seeing themselves as being a part of that nation even in antiquity.

Last 8 years I lived in Moscow, so it's relevant. Go on with direct question. I know everything about Russia. Be it rural or not.

[Comrade P.]

@GlyphGryph
By a phrase about "opinion including racial compound" I mean that a person can think and speak freely about how he thinks about nationalities, say, black people or Caucassians as long as he understands that they are no less human beings than he is. I on't know if it sounds contradicting to you, if it is, then I probably should reconsider things.
About Third Reich, I might have too little info about it, but as far as I know, this point stands. Maybe during my further learning my opinion will change in a radical way.

@gogis: don't get mad with it, but if you wanna speak on political topics, your language should be as sharp as razorblade. Mine, for example, is pretty blunt, and it enrages me, so I'm working on it. Though,as for me, it doesn't matter how long you try to make a club sharp...

[Owlbread]

Last 8 years I lived in Moscow, so it's relevant. Go on with direct question. I know everything about Russia. Be it rural or not.

I don't doubt that. I'm not even talking about rural or urban differences. It's just that, even if they have been so assimilated, I still believe there is an Udmurt nation distinct from Russia.

    "Dun oşmes vu žiľırté şur'yosın,
    Volga-Kam – pacıyl virséram.
    Rossien çoş kaygın no danın Ton,
    Udmurtie mınam! Yugdıtı."

I hope that one day Udmurts will see the light and seek their own freedom, but the world would probably have to shift quite dramatically for anything like that to happen.

[gogis]

@gogis: don't get mad with it, but if you wanna speak on political topics, your language should be as sharp as razorblade. Mine, for example, is pretty blunt, and it enrages me, so I'm working on it. Though,as for me, it doesn't matter how long you try to make a club sharp...

They do understand me, I am 100% certain ) I can't really work on it, I suck in russian same way. Grammar is a biatch.

[Owlbread]

They do understand me, I am 100% certain ) I can't really work on it, I suck in russian same way. Grammar is a biatch.

Hmmm. Perhaps the spirits of your ancestors are trying to tell you something, Gogis.

You know, I once heard that the Irish President "Eamon de Valera" once complained of having to "twist his mouth with the English tongue". I feel like that sometimes.

[Comrade P.]

Last 8 years I lived in Moscow, so it's relevant. Go on with direct question. I know everything about Russia. Be it rural or not.

I don't doubt that. I'm not even talking about rural or urban differences. Even if they have been so assimilated I still believe there is an Udmurt nation distinct from Russia.

Uuuuuu, Owlbread, you separatist  You wanna see the world map as a patchwork blanket, don't you. Alright, I know you do.

[gogis]

Last 8 years I lived in Moscow, so it's relevant. Go on with direct question. I know everything about Russia. Be it rural or not.

I don't doubt that. I'm not even talking about rural or urban differences. It's just that, even if they have been so assimilated, I still believe there is an Udmurt nation distinct from Russia.

    "Dun oşmes vu žiľırté şur'yosın,
    Volga-Kam – pacıyl virséram.
    Rossien çoş kaygın no danın Ton,
    Udmurtie mınam! Yugdıtı."

I hope that one day Udmurts will see the light and seek their own freedom, but the world would probably have to shift quite dramatically for anything like that to happen.

They don't want to be free. My former classmate is hardcore Udmurt. He don't want to segregate, what I should say here? I am not really "udmurt" I just was born there. I mean all minorities is fine. I can't undertsand why you are not (or you are okay?)

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It's just unfortunate when I see a modern day descendant of a conquered nation so assimilated into the conquerer's realm that they do not think of themselves as distinct anymore, even making the mistake of seeing themselves as being a part of that nation even in antiquity.

That kind of people form a backbone of Soviet people. They lost their nationality but never got a new one. They may think they are Russian but if you dig up you'll see that they know very little about Russian history, Russian traditions, Russian ethics and substitute that with USSR era morals and historical myths.

[gogis]

They do understand me, I am 100% certain ) I can't really work on it, I suck in russian same way. Grammar is a biatch.

Hmmm. Perhaps the spirits of your ancestors are trying to tell you something, Gogis.

You know, I once heard that the Irish President "Eamon de Valera" once complained of having to "twist his mouth with the English tongue". I feel like that sometimes.

I am pretty sure my ancestors is simplier than you imply. They are russians.

[gogis]

It's just unfortunate when I see a modern day descendant of a conquered nation so assimilated into the conquerer's realm that they do not think of themselves as distinct anymore, even making the mistake of seeing themselves as being a part of that nation even in antiquity.

That kind of people form a backbone of Soviet people. They lost their nationality but never got a new one. They may think they are Russian but if you dig up you'll see that they know very little about Russian history, Russian traditions, Russian ethics and substitute that with USSR era morals and historical myths.

Or not... You dig way too shallow.

[Owlbread]

Uuuuuu, Owlbread, you separatist  You wanna see the world map as a patchwork blanket, don't you. Alright, I know you do.

I do. I really do. Cartographers would need buckets of paracetamol and aspirin to cope with all the headaches I'd give them.

They don't want to be free. My former classmate is hardcore Udmurt. He don't want to segregate, what I should say here? I am not really "udmurt" I just was born there. I mean all minorities is fine. I can't undertsand why you are not (or you are okay?)

Oh indeed, I don't doubt that there is no desire for independence in Udmurtia. That's a given. That's not to say these ideas couldn't awaken in the future one day, maybe even after we're all dead; once upon a time a lot of the Central Asian states would have rejected independence.

But I don't see it as segregation though, I'm sure Russians and Udmurts would be welcomed equally in an independent Udmurtia. You could even create a system like the EU allowing for freedom of movement.

I am pretty sure my ancestors is simplier than you imply. They are russians.

But can you be so sure? I'm sure they were "Russians" in much the same way that UR's were 200 years ago.

[Baffler]

I know very little about what's going on there, so take this with a grain of salt, but if a group doesn't want to be separate, why make them? Unless I've completely missed the point, in which case, don't listen to me.