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[Guardian G.I.]

They prefer that to start actual work on improving their country. Example: a person has a lawyer dyploma and is capable to work in justice system. He thinks that the justice is performed badly because the judges are bribed. What does that person do? Right, he starts complaining IRL, on internets and TV instead of becoming a judge and actually performing justice.

]
Changing system from inside is a rather naive idea. Quite a lot of Ukrainians tried to do that with the communist party.

Problem here that if you put a fresh cucumber in a barrel with prickled cucumbers it will not remain fresh for a long

If you don't follow the rules of the system you will be kicked out of corrupted system. If you follow them then you are a part of the corrupted system.

This is one of the main problems of post-Soviet politics. The word "changes" constantly muttered by liberal opposition members (and generally all opposition members around here) means complete destruction of the existing political and economic system. Any idea of non-radical reforms is discarded. The Russian version of the Internationale sums it up perfectly:

Весь мир насилья мы разрушим
До основанья, а затем
Мы наш, мы новый мир построим, —
Кто был ничем, тот станет всем!

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Guardian G.I. You see, curing a cancer by strengthening a body is impossible. Good diet and healthy lifestyle will not help
You need to hurt healthy parts of your body to have any hope to survive. Radiotherapy, Chemotherapy and surgery can kill you but not using that  will kill you with 100% probability.

[smjjames]

They prefer that to start actual work on improving their country. Example: a person has a lawyer dyploma and is capable to work in justice system. He thinks that the justice is performed badly because the judges are bribed. What does that person do? Right, he starts complaining IRL, on internets and TV instead of becoming a judge and actually performing justice.

]
Changing system from inside is a rather naive idea. Quite a lot of Ukrainians tried to do that with the communist party.

Problem here that if you put a fresh cucumber in a barrel with prickled cucumbers it will not remain fresh for a long

If you don't follow the rules of the system you will be kicked out of corrupted system. If you follow them then you are a part of the corrupted system.

This is one of the main problems of post-Soviet politics. The word "changes" constantly muttered by liberal opposition members (and generally all opposition members around here) means complete destruction of the existing political and economic system. Any idea of non-radical reforms is discarded. The Russian version of the Internationale sums it up perfectly:

Весь мир насилья мы разрушим
До основанья, а затем
Мы наш, мы новый мир построим, —
Кто был ничем, тот станет всем!

So, basically 'nuke the world'?

[kaijyuu]

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

[Frumple]

... at the same time, if no one at least tries to fight it from the inside, there's absolutely nothing preventing it from reaching the point outside intervention is required. Until something external can be done, someone has to fight the internal battle

[Comrade P.]

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

... at the same time, if no one at least tries to fight it from the inside, there's absolutely nothing preventing it from reaching the point outside intervention is required. Until something external can be done, someone has to fight the internal battle

This was my original point.

Well, P., we complain here as well, so I guess we are intelligentsiya too?

Well, yes. But hey, as for me, I don't complain all the time. Actually, I complain rarely and mostly to myself, keeping it inside. Doesn't make me better, but .

[Ukrainian Ranger]

And they call us antisemitic?

[Dutchling]

Not sure how that's relevant to Crimea though.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

So you had one revolution in your history that changed country for worse and now wary of doing any revolution?
And don't say me that 1991-1993 events were a revolution. Just a coup, elites were not changed

Not sure how that's relevant to Crimea though.

Well, I changed the name of the topic some time ago exactly because discussion is not Crimea centered for a quite a long time

[kaijyuu]

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

Okay, Please list all active recourses against corruption you have available in the current system, and whether they actually work. How can you actively fight it, not just be personally better? If someone in, say, a police department spoke out against their supervisor's corruption, would they get a medal or would they get fired?

[smjjames]

The topic was Ukraine and the Euromaidan thing (which I'm not really clear on what it is).

No idea what the heck she is talking about with her thinking that Euromaidan is going to bring about a second holocaust, HOW would that even happen? Besides, any jewish genocide is going to get heavily cracked down on.

[Comrade P.]

And they call us antisemitic?

Either they cut the actual moment from Youtube video, either I just cn't see where it was so horribly antisemitic.

Anв the source - radio Svoboda - I think cannot be called completely unbiased.

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

So you had one revolution in your history that changed country for worse and now wary of doing any revolution?
And don't say me that 1991-1993 events were a revolution. Just a coup, elites were not changed

Still, it was shitty time.

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

Okay, Please list all active recourses against corruption you have available in the current system, and whether they actually work. How can you actively fight it, not just be personally better? If someone in, say, a police department spoke out against their supervisor's corruption, would they get a medal or would they get fired?

I meant that if people generally do their duty as they should be, it'd be already better. Overall, I think corruption takes a special place among men and will be always represented. The question is, how important is it's role. If you can get away with speeding for a small fee to policeman, it's one case. If you can get away with mass murder, that's another.
You know, passive resisting. Gandhi and stuff. Remembered that while typing.

[smjjames]

Corruption is one of those things that is really difficult if not impossible to fix without completely breaking something down and rebuilding it.

Thanks had that done twice in previous century. Lets try something else.

Okay, Please list all active recourses against corruption you have available in the current system, and whether they actually work. How can you actively fight it, not just be personally better? If someone in, say, a police department spoke out against their supervisor's corruption, would they get a medal or would they get fired?

I meant that if people generally do their duty as they should be, it'd be already better. Overall, I think corruption takes a special place among men and will be always represented. The question is, how important is it's role. If you can get away with speeding for a small fee to policeman, it's one case. If you can get away with mass murder, that's another.
You know, passive resisting. Gandhi and stuff. Remembered that while typing.

I think you're avoiding the question.

[Comrade P.]

Effective ways to resist corruption were introduced by Stalin. Worked great.

To be serious, I see either radical way, either thing I tried to suggest in previous post. All those "fair and legal" ways are nothing yet another fancy useless entertainment for perverted lawyers.

[smjjames]

It might help if you had leader(s) who are actually interested in rooting out corruption, like say, Theodore Roosevelt.

Yes I know I gave an American example, I don't know of any Russian political figures (or even emerging figures) who are actually interested in fighting corruption. Other than maybe that one guy who is the only one who voted against annexation.