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[kaian-a-coel]

The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression that there is a profound misunderstanding somewhere as how people relate to their governments.

- You know man, I killed some men. It's bad thing to do, but hey I am strong, so I am not going to face a consequences
- You know, I did kill some men too, man, sorry...
- THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
- You know, you did this too..
- Sorry bro, but thats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque, so shoo, you bad and you have victim complex

Right there. There is the problem. It's not what you're saying. It's more like:

-My boss killed people. I feel it was a bad thing, and I feel bad because he was my boss then.
-Well, my boss killed people and I'm OK with it because yours did it too.
-Hey, killing people is a bad thing, no matter who did it!
-But you did it too.
-Not me, my boss, and I'm not OK with it.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The best part of that "USA did that, too" argument is that Afghanistan and Iraq wars were harmful for American economy and foreign relations

But somehow, "we are only doing what USA did" type of Russian hope that Crimea will bring them profit  and increase Russian might while it will bring nothing but loses even if no sanctions at all will be used 

[GlyphGryph]

This can be actually pretty legit due to russian proverb
В чужом глазу соринку видим, в своем бревно не замечаем

The Bible - The book of Russian proverbs

If you wander it is - "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye"

So my argument just got stronger in eyes of Christians? Isnt that a good thing? You need to check proverb about рыльце в пушку as well. Maybe it's from Torah

This quote is literally condemning the argument you are making. It is literally saying "do not do what you are doing". I'm not sure if this is just a language issue or if there's something more in the line of willful ignorance going on, but... seriously.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The best part of that "USA did that, too" argument is that Afghanistan and Iraq wars were harmful for American economy and foreign relations

But somehow, "we are only doing what USA did" type of Russian hope that Crimea will bring them profit  and increase Russian might while it will bring nothing but loses even if no sanctions at all will be used 

You misunderstand. These types of Russian mean only to use the "we are only doing what USA did" as a justification - not, in fact, implying that what we did was in any way like what USA did. For one, we appear to actually have a measure of honest support in the country/region we are "invading", and there are no clear ways from which we could directly profit from the place. We "did what USA did", but for entirely different reasons and in entirely different circumstances. That is why those types of Russian are doing what they do.

[smjjames]

The best part of that "USA did that, too" argument is that Afghanistan and Iraq wars were harmful for American economy and foreign relations

But somehow, "we are only doing what USA did" type of Russian hope that Crimea will bring them profit  and increase Russian might while it will bring nothing but loses even if no sanctions at all will be used 

You misunderstand. These types of Russian mean only to use the "we are only doing what USA did" as a justification - not, in fact, implying that what we did was in any way like what USA did. For one, we appear to actually have a measure of honest support in the country/region we are "invading", and there are no clear ways from which we could directly profit from the place. We "did what USA did", but for entirely different reasons and in entirely different circumstances. That is why those types of Russian are doing what they do.

Except that our (that is, the US) justification was something entirely different for Iraq than the justification Russia is pulling, which is protecting Russians IN Crimea.

@GlyphGryph: Could be a combination of cultural differences and language barrier.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: love this foto (click to show/hide)

Swedish prime minister,British prime minister,Ukrainian prime minister today

[Dutchling]

I prefer this one:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[gogis]

Either my english suck so much, or you just refuse to carefully read what I write.
Notice that you was perpetually most demeaning poster towards russians/russia in this thread.

I think it's pretty demeaning you won't even recognize your soldiers [which, if your previous posts are to believed, you should revere as fellow soldiers] are in harm's way for your Kremlin.

There is no proof it's russian soldiers, yet. It could be russian sevastopol soldiers going rogue without direct order. It could be provocateurs planted there by west to tarnish russian reputation. It could be anything. As I said (and you ignored) it's as shady as "faulty" intelligence about Iraq WMD

[gogis]

The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression that there is a profound misunderstanding somewhere as how people relate to their governments.

- You know man, I killed some men. It's bad thing to do, but hey I am strong, so I am not going to face a consequences
- You know, I did kill some men too, man, sorry...
- THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!
- You know, you did this too..
- Sorry bro, but thats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque, so shoo, you bad and you have victim complex

Right there. There is the problem. It's not what you're saying. It's more like:

-My boss killed people. I feel it was a bad thing, and I feel bad because he was my boss then.
-Well, my boss killed people and I'm OK with it because yours did it too.
-Hey, killing people is a bad thing, no matter who did it!
-But you did it too.
-Not me, my boss, and I'm not OK with it.

I stated my own opinion on russian goverment and Putin and my political views and shared plenty of personal information good hundred pages back. Now I voice over opinions which is very popular amongst hefty chunk of russian population. I know it's not because I read or watch national media, but because I've participated in such conversations. Call me a devil advocate if you want, it doesnt change the fact that most of what I said is shared amongst sufficient number of people.
I call bs on some but I can't defy logic of some aswell.

Saddest part is that current western politics actually empower Putin and goverment. And you don't even understand why. Well, most of you.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Saddest part is that current western politics actually empower Putin and goverment. And you don't even understand why. Well, most of you.

And what should "The West" do to remove Putin from power? Any suggestions? Allow him to do whatever he wants?

[Descan]

All I gotta say is that Russia is a dick.

Russians, got nothin' against them. I love Americans too, but America is a dick too.

Apologists are dicks as well, because you're sucking on your governments propaganda because... uhm... Why? Is it pride? Is your sense of self-worth tied up in your country? You'd think that, even if that was the case, you'd want your country to... actually be something to be proud of. Instead of just saying "Nonono it's great shut up!", you'd think you'd want to actually try and make it better? Saying your country can do no wrong means that you ignore when they do wrong, it's pretty cut-and-dry.

[gogis]

This can be actually pretty legit due to russian proverb
В чужом глазу соринку видим, в своем бревно не замечаем

The Bible - The book of Russian proverbs

If you wander it is - "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye"

So my argument just got stronger in eyes of Christians? Isnt that a good thing? You need to check proverb about рыльце в пушку as well. Maybe it's from Torah

This quote is literally condemning the argument you are making. It is literally saying "do not do what you are doing". I'm not sure if this is just a language issue or if there's something more in the line of willful ignorance going on, but... seriously.

Yes, you read it right. Whats wrong with that? It's an irony. He literally poking every single bit of what I write so whatever. Just ignore messages between us. He is filled with hatred to russians I can't take it very seriously

[Comrade P.]

I wonder how many Russian folks spawned in last two days. A lot of them now. Haven't seen them here before. Well, at least Russian agenda now will be represented as much as EU.

And still with flavor of personal opinions.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It could be provocateurs planted there by west to tarnish russian reputation.

Cant tell if joking

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You are great psychologist, gogis to see my hate from there

I do hate. I hate Soviet ideology, the decease of Russian and Ukrainian* nation. And all that happens is a relapse of that deadly thing. 

* but Maydan gives us a hope of curing