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[Mictlantecuhtli]

And "faulty intelligence" is as believable as noninsignia soliers being not russians.

Huh

So............. You're saying we didn't have faulty/made-up intelligence when invading iraq? I'm a bit confused.

[smjjames]

Last time I checked, the Iraq war WAS NOT a landgrab. Faulty intelligence or not. Did we keep any of the territory for our uses? No, and don't use the puppet state argument because Iraq is far from being under US control.

Thats why I inspecificaly mentioned land grab *slash* conflict. And "faulty intelligence" is as believable as noninsignia soliers being not russians.

By faulty intelligence, I meant the claim of Iraq WMDs which hinged on an informant which wasn't particularly credible.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Back to real life. I am absolutely sure not a single world land grab/conflict was ever purely legitimate. Who cares about this shit anyways? Bush still not in prison, last time checked.

I could say that USA doing some bad stuff doesn't excuse doing something much worse... But I understand that this is useless.

Gogis I want to tell you that USA is the world mightiest country. While Russia is nothing but a very large gas station with nuclear missiles. I understand that looking on the map you look huge and powerful but that is illusion created by your propaganda.  If you want to live in the world were strongest allowed to do whatever he wants, you'll suffer badly

[gogis]

Paradox terms: No dog and pony show = Not even a murky/forged casus belli or any other can-be-spun-as-legitimate reason to do what they done.

That exactly the problem.
What you see murky and/or forged is plain and justified to other party.
You say Khrushev gave it to Ukraine? They say he gave it to republic which was part of the same country so it's not counts.
You say all russians bad and should be kept in check. They say west is insidious and russia mostly fought defensive wars.

I can go on and go on, it wouldnt change prejudice towards each other of both parties. Not in a near future, alas.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

@mict
No, as in bush used 'faulty intelligence' as an excuse to cover his ulterior motives.

But it's not quite as insultingly obvious, because the 'faulty intelligence' wasn't standing around in Iraq, demonstrating its non-faultiness and getting caught with nametags linked to its non-faulty intelligence Facebook accounts.

[Sergarr]

Russia is nothing but a very large gas station with nuclear missiles

Somehow I think you underestimate Russia. Very well, the more you underestimate us, the bigger the surprise will be.

EDIT: Oh god I butchered that quote so bad I'm sorry

[gogis]

Last time I checked, the Iraq war WAS NOT a landgrab. Faulty intelligence or not. Did we keep any of the territory for our uses? No, and don't use the puppet state argument because Iraq is far from being under US control.

Thats why I inspecificaly mentioned land grab *slash* conflict. And "faulty intelligence" is as believable as noninsignia soliers being not russians.

By faulty intelligence, I meant the claim of Iraq WMDs which hinged on an informant which wasn't particularly credible.

Or meticulously ... redacted ... for a purpose. I know people who believe in that.

[smjjames]

Last time I checked, the Iraq war WAS NOT a landgrab. Faulty intelligence or not. Did we keep any of the territory for our uses? No, and don't use the puppet state argument because Iraq is far from being under US control.

Thats why I inspecificaly mentioned land grab *slash* conflict. And "faulty intelligence" is as believable as noninsignia soliers being not russians.

By faulty intelligence, I meant the claim of Iraq WMDs which hinged on an informant which wasn't particularly credible.

Or meticulously ... redacted ... for a purpose. I know people who believe in that.

We never did find the huge stockpiles of WMDs that Bush claimed Iraq had.

[10ebbor10]

Mostly because they were never there.

[GlyphGryph]

And there we go with the tu quoque argument, right on schedule.

This can be actually pretty legit due to russian proverb
В чужом глазу соринку видим, в своем бревно не замечаем

That there exists a proverb for it does it make it any less worthless as an argument. It's a self-defeating justification that goes a long way to explain why Russia isn't nearly as well off as they could be - an excuse to blame all of their flaws on the flaws of others instead of fixing the stuff that's gone wrong. It's nothing more and nothing less than a complete denial of responsibility for one's own actions.

If I was to argue that cutting off my own legs wasn't stupid because some other guy (that everyone knows is pretty damned stupid) cut off both his legs AND an arm, I would hope to hell you would laugh at the outright absurdity of my argument.

That the US has acted like a moronic bully moving at the self-destructive whims of a group of selfish ogilarchs and downright evil politicians provides no reason whatsoever for Russia to do the same, unless it's controlled by people who value their pride more than their prosperity.

But hey, maybe it is!

Every single time the US government has done something based on the argument that the Soviets were worse, the American nation and it's people where the ones who suffered from the stupidity of such a decision. Anyone who honestly propounds such a stupid argument is someone who is begging to become a victim of the crooks and tyrants who will be more than happy to abuse it to their own profit.

[smjjames]

Mostly because they were never there.

Exactly, which is what the faulty intelligence was, that Iraq had them.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Russia is nothing but a very large gas station with nuclear missiles
Somehow I think you underestimate Russia. Very well, the more you underestimate us, the bigger the surprise will be.

And you wonder why people like mict are around.
And yet there's a victim complex.

[smirk]

Mostly because they were never there.

Exactly, which is what the faulty intelligence was, that Iraq had them.

I think gogis meant that 'faulty intelligence' is unbelievable because it implies an honest mistake, rather than people knowingly abusing it.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

This can be actually pretty legit due to russian proverb
В чужом глазу соринку видим, в своем бревно не замечаем

The Bible - The book of Russian proverbs

If you wander it is - "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye"

[gogis]

Mostly because they were never there.

Exactly, which is what the faulty intelligence was, that Iraq had them.

Why you keep calling it's "faulty" if it could be as well a "faulty on a purpose". It's very different entities.