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[smjjames]

Maybe that's what CNN meant, to stay 100% as before.

Exactly, there was no "status quo" option, just "join Russia" or "get wide-reaching autonomy from Ukraine".

Blame CNN on not being clearer then.

How much autonomy do they already get from Ukraine though?

[Owlbread]

Sad truth is that there are will be very few winners in Crimea, even among ethnic Russians.  When soldiers will move away back to their bases and the residents will be in the hands of new governors, Crimeans will  learn what unlimited corruption and rampant crime mean.

There will be that for a period, perhaps for a longer time than normal if it remains a disputed territory under international law. Things will eventually stabilise and yet more "strong leaders" will be elected on a platform of anti-corruption when there's really no difference between them and the previous leaders, they just know how to hide their activities better. They've probably got clean fingernails too and look good in suits.

It often seems to me that the average Russian does not care how much freedom he has as long as his leader seems honest, seems to have backbone and seems to know what he's doing, prioritises the economy and such. He's probably a crook like the rest of them but hey, everyone's a crook.

I know that could be said the world over but for a nation that has been so politically turbulent, even pioneering if you look at the accomplishments of the USSR, it still pains me to see a people who really haven't changed in hundreds of years. Russia is still the very definition of a petty bourgeois state - still obsessed with nationalism, money, power, control, empire building, militarism, even isolationism at times. The whole idea of Communism and all the people that worked and died for it in Russia was all for nothing.

[burningpet]

Who are true Crimeans? Is there another "faction" there?

The Tatars whose ancestors have lived in Crimea for millennia.

Lets give crimea to the greeks.

[Owlbread]

Lets give crimea to the greeks.

Let's give Israel to the Jews.

[smjjames]

Who are true Crimeans? Is there another "faction" there?

The Tatars whose ancestors have lived in Crimea for millennia.

Lets give crimea to the greeks.

Based on what? Long gone colonies?

In one of my EU4 games, greece also appeared in the crimea penninsula for some reason.

[Darvi]

Let's give Scotland to the Norse.

[Owlbread]

Greeks colonised southern Crimea, taking the land from the natives there. Their descendents, the natives, the Goths and the Turkic peoples that also settled there (e.g. Cumans and Khazars) all intermarried and mingled (Mongol dominance helped in this regard) and eventually became the Crimean Tatars that we see today, who lived there continuously in majority until the late 19th, early 20th centuries.

[smjjames]

I suppose we are all in agreement that we give Crimea to the Tatars then?

[XXSockXX]

How much autonomy do they already get from Ukraine though?

We discussed that earlier, but didn't go into details.  In short, as I understand it, they are quite autonomous now, with some budget rights, but there are some things that need to be approved by the Ukrainian parliament and/or President. The return to the 1992 constitution would have made them almost semi-independent, while still getting a budget from Kiev and being able to vote in Ukraine.
Some more details are to be found in the wiki articles and wikisource versions of the different Ukrainian and Crimean constitutions.

[smjjames]

How much autonomy do they already get from Ukraine though?

We discussed that earlier, but didn't go into details.  In short, as I understand it, they are quite autonomous now, with some budget rights, but there are some things that need to be approved by the Ukrainian parliament and/or President. The return to the 1992 constitution would have made them almost semi-independent, while still getting a budget from Kiev and being able to vote in Ukraine.
Some more details are to be found in the wiki articles and wikisource versions of the different Ukrainian and Crimean constitutions.

I started reading this in the last one or two pages or so. So I didn't see that discussion.

If Russia gets what they want with Crimea (and they most likely will, none of the powers want to risk a nuclear war if they fight Russia directly), whats going to stop them from trying to get pieces of former soviet sattelites? If they even have any plans to.

[Frumple]

Presumably choking on the chunk of Ukraine they're chomping on mixed with the incoming economic troubles they've brought upon themselves. From what I'm getting out of all this so far, anyway.

[XXSockXX]

I started reading this in the last one or two pages or so. So I didn't see that discussion.

If Russia gets what they want with Crimea (and they most likely will, none of the powers want to risk a nuclear war if they fight Russia directly), whats going to stop them from trying to get pieces of former soviet sattelites? If they even have any plans to.

There wasn't much more to that discussion than what I summed up, so no problem.

The question is whether they will try that or not. In case of the Baltic states they can't (NATO members), in case of other states like Belarus it's highly unlikely (they are still close allies, so there is really no need to at this point).
It all depends on what happens in Eastern Ukraine now, where there are Russians and some support for joining Russia, on a much much smaller scale than in Crimea though. If they do that, well, there won't be a nuclear war since the West won't intervene directly, but probably war with Ukraine, which the West will support economically and indirectly with military logistics. Also we'll have another Cold War, with full sanctions and diplomatic isolation.
That is going to be very interesting in the next days, now after the referendum, things could normalize somewhat if Russia is content with Crimea or become very ugly and dangerous should this become an open military conflict with Ukraine.

My personal opinion, or rather what I hope will happen, is that Putin will now be more willing to negotiate, with the goal of somehow legitimizing the annexation of Crimea, as a bargain he might recognize the government in Kiev. The West will employ sanctions and try to refuse, but it seems likely that Crimea will remain with Russia, recognized or not. This has cost Russia so much money and diplomatic influence already, a further escalation would be insane and might be much less popular in Russia than the Crimea thing.

[smjjames]

I think the UN is already preparing those sanctions, or will be very soon.

If a new Cold War does start up, it'll be a lot less 'war' since we aren't combating communist influence and Russia doesn't have a whole lot of allies. Even China seems to be backing away from Russia over the whole thing. Don't know whether we can get China to flex it's economic muscle against Russia though.

[Pnx]

I think the UN is already preparing those sanctions, or will be very soon.

Not the UN, Russia is on the security council, so they can, and will, block any attempt to take action against them through the UN.

[Owlbread]

The way I see it the West has already been in a Cold War with Iran for quite a long time. It's pretty much the norm these days when war is wholly undesirable.