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[Sheb]

10ebbor: It's just euro-centrism again. Each time we get a serious continent-scale war going on we call it world war.

Comrade P: There is no arguing that the annexation of Crimea was illegal under international an Ukrainian law. Whether it's legitimate can be discussed, but its illegality cannot.

Avis: I get your disgust for Western oligarchs, but were things better in the rest of Ukraine? Or in Russia? It seems the 90's were pretty bleak all over the place.

Anyway, the kleptocracy is not the same thing as euro-integration. Those countries that did integrate and joined the EU are doing better than Russia or Ukraine that did not.

[Owlbread]

Sure as heck. The most noticeable aspect was that everything state- beginning with voting bulletins and ending with nameplates on schools and hospitals - got converted into Ukrainian. Russian in schools was demoted to secondary language - that in a region where 90+% of the population speaks it - and Ukrainian was instated in its place.

It's so funny how Russians cannot under any circumstances take what they've dished out to countless nations and peoples. The minute they're under serious threat from a nation powerful enough to subjugate them (see Mongols and Nazi Germany) it defines them in ways virtually nothing else can. When you were talking about the Russian language in schools I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

And through all this, the bastards in the west - those same bastards who are now in government - told us that we were not "nationally conscious" enough, and that we needed to be more loyal to our country. Fuck them. We are.

I'm sure Russia is big enough for all of you.

I hope you are consistent in your support for gangs of nationalist bandits and one-culture states. Eat your heart out: I have lived in Crimea and I will live there again. You never have and never will, and yet you talk so much, one might think you're an expert.

And so commenceth the insufferable "You don't even live here, silly foreigner!" arguments.

And that's good how? The Ukrainian oligarchy doesn't care for anything but its pockets, and the only "liberal" thing they're gonna do is promote laws that benefit those pockets. It's like the nineties all over again. You know, people here were enthusiastic about the Soviet Union falling, being friends and all with the West - and then it turned out it wasn't going to feed them. It isn't going to feed Ukraine either. And the people who suffer will not be the oligarchs.

You will notice at no point have I praised or expressed support for the people in government in Ukraine right now. I agree with their approach to the National question but I am a Socialist. I have no time for them or for the rightists that govern Russia and Belarus and will soon govern Crimea.

Okay. One thing I really missed - the Right Sector (or Pravy Sector, whatever you like) and current government are not the same guys. But the Right Sector is nationalist. I now recall that guy who was interviewed by BBC on Maidan (link was posted here earlier) - the one who said "One nation, one country, one leader. No, we won't do like Hitler, well, not like, maybe just a bit..."

Right Sector and Svoboda (the most junior partners in the coalition that governs Ukraine) are far-right and Nationalist. You are completely correct, and you could argue that the government in Ukraine is quite Nationalistic in their promotion of Ukrainian and so on, but they're really more Liberal than anything else.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

foreign relations may have taken a hit, but the popularity of the government and national morale in general has improved tremendously.

Jingoism on the march.  I wonder what will happen with the national morale when effects of the upcoming recession will hit Russian economics

As such, I don't think any further military intervention is required, because with the retarded way the new government of Ukraine has been going about business, it'll fall apart all by itself in short order.

Common Russian belief - Ukrainians are retards who can't manage their own country.
You know what the difference with your country? A colony named Siberia, That one. With Oil and Gas

A lot of Crimean Russians are half- or quarter-Tatar.

So what? That never was a problem in any genocide

Now the Tatars. Tatar genocide by Russians is a fucking ridiculous idea.

Sure. And Tatars just forgot 1944

Back in the nineties, they used to evict people from premises because apparently, the bones of their ancestors lie in the foundations, and move in

Mostly because of support of Ukrainian government and they failed to get most of their homes back, getting inferior land. 

Third, Ukrainians whining about the rights of Tatars are starting to piss me off, because the Ukrainian government has been stepping all over those

Unfortunately it is  true... Ukrainian government did almost nothing for Crimean Tatars You see, most of the time we had government that huge majority of Crimeans voted for, including Yanukovitch who got 75%+ of votes in Crimea. So yep, Crimean Tatars didn't got enough support from the Government, because it was pro-Russian and that exactly what Russians of Crimea wanted. That is especially true for the local government of Crimea.

for the whole period of Ukrainian occupation

You made me laugh here

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It's almost like double-talk is taught in Russian schools.

[Owlbread]

To deny the existence of the genocide of the Crimean Tatar nation by the Soviets is pretty much along the same lines as denying the genocide of gypsies and Jews and Slavs in WW2. No question about it.

[Sheb]

RT is reporting 95% of yes vote, with around half of the ballots counted.

[scriver]

I doubt anyone here will deny that (extremely) far right nationalist conservatives is part if the new Ukrainian government. The thing is, Russia is run by a (almost as) far right nationalist conservative. Only one of these two countries invades others, however.

[Lagslayer]

RT is reporting 95% of yes vote, with around half of the ballots counted.

So, what does everyone think? Is it a fixed vote? Do they genuinely want to join Russia? Should the referendum even be recognized by the international community?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Avis-Mergulus, and one question. Why your so called "Crimean Government" behaves like an armed robber? With all that "nationalization" of Ukrainian Navy (the most expensive ships were built in Ukraine so even the "it's all Soviet" claim doesn't work) Ukrainian state-owned companies (Those where funded from the budget of  Ukraine, you know? ) and even private property owned by "the wrong people"?

I really want to hear your explanation why it is a righteous way to act

[olemars]

P.S. As for provocations, I wonder whose train full of soldiers and military hardware was recently stopped in Donetsk. It wasn't mine for sure, this I know.

So Ukraine is moving Ukrainian military units around inside Ukraine and feel a need to beef up alertness by the border? I guess russian media isn't mentioning much about the large russian military exercises that suddenly and conveniently began a couple of days ago right next to Donetsk and Kharkiv.

[Helgoland]

RT is reporting 95% of yes vote, with around half of the ballots counted.

So, what does everyone think? Is it a fixed vote? Do they genuinely want to join Russia? Should the referendum even be recognized by the international community?

Yes, probably, definitely not.

[Sheb]

Lagslayer: definitely fixed, although it is entirely possible that a majority of Crimeans wants to join, there is no way 95 percents of Crimea support independence. You've got something like 20% of ethnic Ukrainians living there, I don't believe over 75% of them support joining Russia.

[Helgoland]

Lagslayer: definitely fixed, although it is entirely possible that a majority of Crimeans wants to join, there is no way 95 percents of Crimea support independence. You've got something like 20% of ethnic Ukrainians living there, I don't believe over 75% of them support joining Russia.

40% ethnic Ukrainians, 15% Crimean Tatars, IIRC.

[miljan]

So, now is the question what will happen in eastern ukraine. How I understand there is much less pro russians there, than in crimea, so russia pulling something like this again would be harder, especially as they don't have any bases there. Its good that there is no real shooting/war happening, this can still end with little or almost no blood spilled.

How many more pro ukraine basses are there on crimea left?

RT is reporting 95% of yes vote, with around half of the ballots counted.

Hmm, 81,37% people voted, that is a surprise if its true. Does it mean Tatars also voted?

Edit: Nevermind, they say in that link that they also voted

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Hmm, 81,37% people voted, that is a surprise if its true. Does it mean Tatars also voted?

There were requirements to vote; i.e. being supportive or neutral on Russia's occupation.