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[Ukrainian Ranger]

I suppose that going violent from day  one (December 1 2013) would lead to much fewer deaths. When you have a million on the streets of  the capital and tell them to do nothing but sing an anthem - You are a moron. Tyrants aren't removed in that way

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I suppose that going violent from day (december 1 2013) one would lead to much fewer deaths. When you have a million on the streets of capital and do nothing but sing an anthem - You are a moron. Tyrants aren't removed in that way

Actually, they can be and have been (such as in Tunisia). Peaceful protests can accomplish a lot when they're overwhelming.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Only if authoritarian leader isn't ready to fight. That wasn't the case. And it was obivious. Peaceful protests only allowed him to gather forces

[Knit tie]

Well, my friend, you have to elaborate how waging a civil war can cause less casualties than not fighting at all.

[Darvi]

Well, my friend, you have to elaborate how waging a civil war can cause less casualties than not fighting at all.

It allows for fewer people to breed, which, ultimately, means fewer people dying (because there's fewer people born in the first place).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Only if authoritarian leader isn't ready to fight. That wasn't the case. And it was obivious. Peaceful protests only allowed him to gather forces

Your authoritarian leader wasn't exactly ready to fight either. He ran away.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Well, my friend, you have to elaborate how waging a civil war can cause less casualties than not fighting at all.

Easy - Yanukovitch would fled to Russia much earlier. Don't forget that if we listened our opposition and now government, Yanukovich would stay in power even after the killings. The moment when people said "We'll fight" Yanukovich ran away

Your authoritarian leader wasn't exactly ready to fight either. He ran away.

To be precise all that Berkut ran away first. They were not willing to die for him, and they would do exactly that earlier. No... "leaders" needed to wait for many, many bodies when they started yet another peaceful march
Now they use the same strategy against Russian army. Interesting, when will they order to defend, when enemy will capture Kiyv? Or few weeks later?

[XXSockXX]

Well, but even if Yanukovych had been deposed earlier or in another way, the problem that Russia might intervene would still exist. We would be exactly where we are now. Except if there was a civil war, Russia would have been much more likely to intervene, maybe even invade.
The Ukrainian army has no chance against the Russian army, at least in an offensive war. They might do some damage on the defense, but ultimately they cannot win.

This way, they might be satisfied with Crimea. They say they will support OSCE observers now. How true that is, we will soon find out in Eastern Ukraine.

[lemon10]

Yeah, if it was more violent Russia would have had much more of a excuse to invade, especially if it did actually break out into civil war.

The way it turned out, Russia invading is doing it massive global political problems, with a potential of economic problems. If they had actually intervened in a civil war they would have been somewhat justified (not the annexing part though).

And since I can't actually see a Ukraine in civil war managing to win against the Russian army, I don't think the civil war outcome would have turned out as anything but disastrous.

[GlyphGryph]

My sources say Donetsk is up to 50 casualties, 3 confirmed dead.

[XXSockXX]

My sources say Donetsk is up to 50 casualties, 3 confirmed dead.

My sources mention 3 dead too, but confirm only the one who died of knife wounds and many injured and hospitalized.

[Knit tie]

Ukrainians have been exceptionally brutal in asymmetric warfare the last time they tried. Just ask wehrmacht.

[scrdest]

Ukrainians have been exceptionally brutal in asymmetric warfare the last time they tried. Just ask wehrmacht.

Well, they DO have an extensive military tradition of asymmetrical warfare after all.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Well, in case if shit will hit the fan asymmetric warfare will be... unpleasant. While terrain of Eastern Ukraine isn't good for guerrilla in a classic definition of the word and not that many will be ready for active resistance, Russian soldiers will get unpleasant surprises like flirting, perfectly Russian speaking girl that will poison them or teenager with a hand grenade or 60+ guys like me dad who can knock lone a Russian soldier from behind.

Also, Putin will have hard time clearing his own army from people with Ukrainian roots that may aid underground resistance

Finally, Russians will see guerrilla spread to their territory, if Chechens managed that, Ukrainians will, too. Stuff will "spontaneously" explode here and there.

War with Ukraine is insanity for Russia... It can't bring political or economic benefits.
 

[Sergarr]

Well it's obviously because there won't be a war, just a "restoration of just government". And they'll probably send your own Ukraine troops to pacify any unrest or resistance. It's a very common practice among all evil empires, of course.