Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 165 166 [167] 168 169 ... 286

Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 309313 times)

GrizzlyAdamz

  • Bay Watcher
  • Herp de derp
    • View Profile
    • Check this shit out
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2490 on: March 11, 2014, 08:05:30 pm »

I blame political science.
Logged
Badges of honor
GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Check this shit out- (it changes)
Profile->Modify Profile->Look and Layout->Current Theme: Default [Change]->Darkling (it's good for your eyes and looks better)

Knit tie

  • Bay Watcher
  • Consider avatar too slim until end of diet.
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2491 on: March 11, 2014, 08:07:23 pm »

I blame political science.
For propaganda?
Logged

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2492 on: March 11, 2014, 08:18:36 pm »

Simply put people love good old black/white, good/evil, friend/enemy categories. It requires little thinking and feels very comfortable.
Of course it is a very poor way to view the world, because the world is not like that, but much more complicated and multi-faceted.
But it works very well, politicians use it all the time too.
Logged

mainiac

  • Bay Watcher
  • Na vazeal kwah-kai
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2493 on: March 11, 2014, 11:05:48 pm »

It's honestly very sad, you know? Wonderfully educated, good-natured, kind people calling each other scum just because some hate NATO more than Putn and vice versa.

It's ironic that after ten years of everyone angrily telling Americans the world doesn't revolve around them... this crisis has legs because Russia thinks it's all about an American dominated organization.  Meanwhile the Americans for a change don't think this remotely revolves around us.
Logged
Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Inscrubtable Exhortations of the Soul
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2494 on: March 12, 2014, 12:51:47 am »

Morally you can't really fault Crimea for doing exactly what the current Ukrainian government did.
I think most of the fault is found specifically in Crimea not being allowed to do anything.

Huh missed that edit.
Yeah, it isn't Crimea that's trying to do this, it's Russia. The referendum and the 'Crimean parliament' that's organized it are illegitimate, as in Russia orchestrated every part via force of arms.

There's been enough popular demonstration on the streets that I don't think Russia is behind everything. They may have an intimate roll in the new Crimean government, but I don't think it's strictly a Russian endeavor.

It's honestly very sad, you know? Wonderfully educated, good-natured, kind people calling each other scum just because some hate NATO more than Putn and vice versa.

It's ironic that after ten years of everyone angrily telling Americans the world doesn't revolve around them... this crisis has legs because Russia thinks it's all about an American dominated organization.  Meanwhile the Americans for a change don't think this remotely revolves around us.

I think it's more "Russia vs. Not Russia", with America leading the last bit. We get used as a polarizing factor in pretty much anything we're involved in. Not always without reason.
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

GlyphGryph

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2495 on: March 12, 2014, 01:20:20 am »

Undoubtedly there's a bit of support for Russia somewhere. When Russia has completely shut down the Crimean news system, though, and have shown a willingness to organize groups of people and claim they are native Crimeans it makes it VERY difficult to say anything with any degree of sureness. I would be fine with people on the steets advocating for what Russia is claiming they are advocating for, and I'd argue they would have every right to do that, but I haven't seen any convincing evidence yet that it's actually happening beyond a handful of opportunist politicians with guns at their heads deciding that Pro-Russia is a really good position to hold right now, and a handful (on the streets) of the pro-russian fascist groups I mentioned earlier (who, unlike in Maidain, don't seem to be a part of some larger movement).

If you've got any sources on the pro-russia protests, though, I'd appreciate them, since I've seen very little on that.
Logged

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2496 on: March 12, 2014, 01:34:10 am »

If you've got any sources on the pro-russia protests, though, I'd appreciate them, since I've seen very little on that.
Here's an older one and here a newer one. The older one is more interesting since it was before there were Russian troops in Crimea.
I've seen more in articles and TV, so there were many pro-Russian protests in Crimea, though they seem to have become more prevalent with the leadership change and the arrival of Russian troops.

It is probably safe to say that a significant majority of the Russian population in Crimea supports joining Russia now. Correspondents have seen pro-Ukrainian protests too, but these were fewer and smaller by far (also no surprise with Russian troops in the country).

Generally speaking the whole crisis in Ukraine has fueled Russian national sentiment enormously, both in Russia but also everywhere where there are Russian minorities. Apparently that is true even for people who normally are not overtly patriotic, that seems to be confirmed by what the Russians in this thread are describing.
In Crimea Russians are a majority, so that was not surprising. There were also pro-Russian protests in Eastern and Southern Ukraine, which - with the tone we hear from Russian media - is a reason to worry that Putin might want to try something there too. The Ukrainian military is now trying to secure the Eastern border just in case, which is also why they won't intervene in Crimea. (Apart from the fact that they probably couldn't achieve much there.)
And of course the Baltic states, where Russians are up to 25% of the population, are worried, though they have been reassured that they don't need to worry, which I guess as NATO members they don't need to.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 02:01:55 am by XXSockXX »
Logged

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2497 on: March 12, 2014, 03:48:28 am »

Still, I'd like to hear from the Russians here what the West should do to not be seen as the enemy. Forbid Ukrainians to join NATO?
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

GlyphGryph

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2498 on: March 12, 2014, 03:56:45 am »

It is probably safe to say that a significant majority of the Russian population in Crimea supports joining Russia now.
Thanks for the links. The question, of course, is whether or not that represents a majority of the Crimean population. Although we'll probably never know that, now.
Logged

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2499 on: March 12, 2014, 04:11:59 am »

Since we can assume almost all Ukrainians and Tatars would vote again, you'd need something like 85% of yes vote among the ethnic Russian population. Given the fact that very few ethnic Russians soldiers seems to have deserted, it doesn't sound far-fetched to imagine that at least 20% of ethnic Russians would vote against.

Of course, there is plenty of dirty tricks they could pull off (closing polling station early in Ukrainian/Tatar areas, "forgetting" to give them enough ballot paper) etc etc to tip the balance.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Owlbread

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2500 on: March 12, 2014, 05:18:18 am »

Or maybe they'll just do what they did in Chechnya and count the occupying soldiers' votes.
Logged

Dutchling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ridin' with Biden
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2501 on: March 12, 2014, 05:20:59 am »

Where do you guys get the crazy idea from that the votes are in any way whatsoever related to the outcome of the poll :P?
Logged

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2502 on: March 12, 2014, 06:02:47 am »

Or maybe they'll just do what they did in Chechnya and count the occupying soldiers' votes.

That could be hard to pull off, since Crimea ain't part of the Russian federation yet.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

MarcAFK

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INSANITY INTENSIFIES]
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2503 on: March 12, 2014, 08:14:15 am »

But the occupying soldiers aren't Russian, they're spontaneous domestic militia!
Therefore their vote totally counts.
Logged
They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

Helgoland

  • Bay Watcher
  • No man is an island.
    • View Profile
Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #2504 on: March 12, 2014, 09:16:38 am »

Headline: "E=mc² disproven! Local defence militias spontaneously materialize in Crimea!"
Logged
The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.
Pages: 1 ... 165 166 [167] 168 169 ... 286