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[GrizzlyAdamz]

EU is apparently american now. What next? Australia will use Chinese soldiers to fight off the Indians?

Pft, they've been doing that all along.

Honestly I thought that was kind of the whole point of NATO. The US get's to be all warmongery without the Europeans bitching about it, and in return the Americans defend the Europeans.

Win-win situation really.

Yep, something like that. Plus the US get to benefit from EU's pansy-ish diplomacy. Good-cop bad-cop style.

[Sergarr]

It's win-win until the nukes come. Then it's lose-lose-nope, still lose-lose again, damn-it's losing all the way down.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It's win-win until the nukes come. Then it's lose-lose-nope, still lose-lose again, damn-it's losing all the way down.

There are one little win. : Survivors will have a chance to build better civilization than this shitty one

[Knit tie]

It's win-win until the nukes come. Then it's lose-lose-nope, still lose-lose again, damn-it's losing all the way down.

The nukes are unlikely to be used until it's a full-out extermination war precisely for that reason.

It's win-win until the nukes come. Then it's lose-lose-nope, still lose-lose again, damn-it's losing all the way down.

There are one little win. : Survivors will have a chance to build better civilization than this shitty one

The civilisation we have is pretty okay, actually. If you think Putin is bad, you should've seen Stalin.

[Sergarr]

I meant that NATO can't get involved because the NATO getting involved automatically means nukes and that can't be allowed to happen. So NATO cannot do anything in this situation. Unless they are suicidal.

[teloft]

Will there be an independent Crimea as there was an independent Finland?

Explain independent finland?

Finland was part of Sweden, then Russia, then Independence. Able to play a balancing game to keep both interests active. While this was still before the revolution, my history knowledge is mostly focused on the Nordic countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Declaration_of_Independence

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I meant that NATO can't get involved because the NATO getting involved automatically means nukes

We have no precedent of direct war between two nuclear powers but we have a precedent of WW2 and chemical weapons. Hitler never used his stockpiles of chemical weapons.
Not that I think that NATO-Russian war is possible in the near future.

[mainiac]

I meant that NATO can't get involved because the NATO getting involved automatically means nukes and that can't be allowed to happen. So NATO cannot do anything in this situation. Unless they are suicidal.

Nukes dont automatically start flying on their own, you know.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

It's win-win until the nukes come. Then it's lose-lose-nope, still lose-lose again, damn-it's losing all the way down.

There are one little win. : Survivors will have a chance to build better civilization than this shitty one

The civilisation we have is pretty okay, actually. If you think Putin is bad, you should've seen Stalin.

This.
Or even before then. We're kinda in a golden age, at least the wealthiest countries are.



The nukes don't fly on their own but they'd be on a hair-trigger. Not nearly as much as in the cold-war though-- the reason why nukes were virtually guaranteed back then was because russia had this enormous goddamn army. There was literally no way the NATO could keep them from crushing in all the way to the Atlantic within two weeks.
So, nukes.
Russia actually signed the 'we'll never use nukes first' treaty & invited the USA to do the same; they didn't exactly fall for the trick.

[Knit tie]

I meant that NATO can't get involved because the NATO getting involved automatically means nukes

We have no precedent of direct war between two nuclear powers but we have a precedent of WW2 and chemical weapons. Hitler never used his stockpiles of chemical weapons.
Not that I think that NATO-Russian war is possible in the near future.

If you are optimistic, my friend, then we all should be, too.

[Pnx]

There have actually been fewer wars in the past decade worldwide than there has been in any time period since... basically all of recorded history. Things are pretty shit sometimes, especially in some places. But overall things are actually pretty damn good, and hopefully getting better... at least if Putin doesn't spark WW3.

What worries me is the idea that Putin might eventually destabilize and anger enough people with his antics that he winds up creating a revolution in his own country... It's not terribly likely right now, but it could happen, and then we might have a huge problem, there's few things in this world as dangerous as a dictator that's being pushed out of office.

[mainiac]

The nukes don't fly on their own but they'd be on a hair-trigger.

We wouldn't exactly be talking defcon 5 (probably defcon 3) but neither side would be facing an existential threat that could get the nukes flying.

[ibot66]

Defcon works with 5 being the most peaceful and 1 being world war three.
Or four or whatever.

[alway]

There have actually been fewer wars in the past decade worldwide than there has been in any time period since... basically all of recorded history. Things are pretty shit sometimes, especially in some places. But overall things are actually pretty damn good, and hopefully getting better... at least if Putin doesn't spark WW3.

What worries me is the idea that Putin might eventually destabilize and anger enough people with his antics that he winds up creating a revolution in his own country... It's not terribly likely right now, but it could happen, and then we might have a huge problem, there's few things in this world as dangerous as a dictator that's being pushed out of office.

I actually am beginning to think it's exactly the opposite. Putin is seeing these rebellions in a lot of states, both allied and not. He's also seeing similar dissatisfaction rising in his own country. I suspect this is as much to weave a unifying tale of an external evil threatening Russia in order to keep himself in power as much as it is anything else. As such, I fully expect to see Russia take Crimea in one fell swoop in order to claim victory, then the rest of Ukraine left to govern itself, being threatened by Russia and branded a rising Nazi power in the Russia media, to be eventually disposed if/when internal politics require another big victory to solidify support. It could extend his reign by at least 3 years.

[Pnx]

I was under the impression the man still has the majority of the population on his side, even in spite of having some very firm detractors.

It probably doesn't help that opponents of the Russian government or it's policies seem to have a strong tendency to be assassinated or imprisoned.