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Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 311126 times)

Dutchling

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1455 on: March 02, 2014, 05:43:16 pm »

Of course. Srebrenica. Never mind me >.>



Polskiej Armii something something Ukrainie

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: okay this article may or may not say they're moving away from the border.
It's not like anyone here speaks Polish anyway.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 05:51:56 pm by Dutchling »
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1456 on: March 02, 2014, 05:52:42 pm »

« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 05:58:26 pm by Guardian G.I. »
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Frumple

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1457 on: March 02, 2014, 05:56:12 pm »

... and suddenly massive contextless image spam. Spoiler that shit, GI. And maybe say something.
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Dutchling

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1458 on: March 02, 2014, 05:57:33 pm »

What;s Hungary doing in that .gif?
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1459 on: March 02, 2014, 05:59:18 pm »

What;s Hungary doing in that .gif?
That's Belarus.
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Dutchling

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1460 on: March 02, 2014, 06:01:52 pm »

I thought Hungary was the one with the fuzzy part at the left, but I can't find anything on their flag or on any of their CoAs on Wikipedia. Odd.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1461 on: March 02, 2014, 06:10:14 pm »

Responses. Separate thing following.

According to this very forum, Luxembourg taking over the world is a fairly realistic situation, mostly because everybody'd be too busy going wtf to react.
That's an amusing thought.

So I hear the head of Ukraines navy has defected over to Russia. Any word on that?
This has been mentioned two or three times already.

As far as can be told, the majority of the Ukranian navy doesn't agree.

So, would anyone be able to offer first hand confirmation or contradiction of the BBC report that people in Russia are reacting in a very negative manner to the current shenanigans?
I live in Moscow, and we had about 300-400 people who protested against of what is going on. And no less than 20000 for what is going on.
Wait, they were protesting for something the government was already doing? People are crazy.

I'll just have to remember your stances on illegally occupying and removing governments next time something like this happens. Not trying to spread 'vitriol'; I'm saying this is highly illegal and will likely lead to terrible repercussions for non-Putin-adorers of Crimea. There's a bit of a precedent for that, mate.
He's not arguing against arguing against Putin's actions, he's arguing against how you're arguing against Putin's actions.

Well, yeah, like some of us have been saying, this is to Russify Crimea, not free it. They will be killing, deporting, and suppressing anyone that will not adhere to the Putin plan for democracytm.
[sarcasm]Wow, a man from russian government revealed himself and all our plans[/sarcasm]
You sound like a man concerned that there is a totally white side and totally black. And you put Russia to the black one. Ethnical and political leansings are serious accusations.
Didn't you get the memo? Putin is literally Hitler and Russia is modern Nazi Germany. If NATO forces don't immediately intervene, Putin will absorb all of Ukraine, call up Lukashenko, invade Poland, and start WW3. China, Iran, and North Korea will also make appearances as supporting characters in the Axis of Evil.
Literally, no, but there are some disturbing parallels to the start of World War Two that some people I was talking with pointed out. More on that later.

If this thread is a microcosm of people's ability to solve problems, Ukraine is in serious trouble.
Remember, Bay12 is one of the nicer parts of the Internet, and typically one of the more rational groups of people I'm familiar with.
Ukraine is screwed.

Literally, putting thier bodies on the line if/when the bullets start flying.
Good luck with that. Sadly, a sense of righteous indignation is not always paired with a sense of what to do to solve problems.

...If I understood the Russian part of the Internet more, would these make sense? Is there some kind of political satire slipped into Russian translations of Futurama or something?

What;s Hungary just about everything doing in that .gif?
FTFY.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1462 on: March 02, 2014, 06:13:21 pm »

Now for the separate thing.

At the beginning of World War Two, a dictator (Hitler--please don't Godwin's Law me) of a nation rather disliked due to a war which ended (to the nation's detriment) a couple decades prior (The Great War) ignored a treaty and invaded a nearby area (the Sudetenland).
Now, a dictator (Putin) of a nation rather disliked due to a war which ended (to the nation's detriment) a couple decades prior (the Cold War) ignored a treaty and invaded a nearby area (Ukraine).

This isn't enough to say "OMG WWII al over agin!", but it is cause for concern...
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Dutchling

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1463 on: March 02, 2014, 06:15:10 pm »

You missed the part where Sudentland/Crimea had a German/Russian speaking populace and the Allies didn't want to act on the attack do there would be peace.
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Frumple

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1464 on: March 02, 2014, 06:20:16 pm »

... though yeah, that particular parallel has come up a few times already, iirc. Thread's noticed, heh.
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Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1465 on: March 02, 2014, 06:20:35 pm »

Still, "Hitler also did it" is a pretty poor argument against something. More seriously, I think the Baltic countries are shitting their pants now. Lithuania already called a meeting under Article 4 of the NATO treaty.

The worse thing is that Putin's action will actively harm the Russian populace of those countries, as they'll end up being seen as fifth columns. Also government will be afraid of giving them any kind of devolution, for fear that the devolved government end up calling in Russian troops.

Again, to all the Russians here: we're not against Crimean independence per se. We just don't think invasion are justified when there wasn't even a referendum yet.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1466 on: March 02, 2014, 06:23:15 pm »

Still, "Hitler also did it" is a pretty poor argument against something.
Not my point. My point is more "The parallels to World War Two are concerning and I hope they're meaningless so could you please prove my fears wrong?"
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Ukrainian Ranger

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XXSockXX

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1468 on: March 02, 2014, 06:39:30 pm »

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/International/2014/Mar-02/249002-germany-warns-against-russia-exclusion-from-g8.ashx

Oh, great, why I am not surprised that Germany supports Russia once again? It may be not a direct support but that is definitely undermining American efforts to isolate Russia
Of course it is. Because the US's diplomatic course of isolating Russia while making it perfectly clear that they will not intervene (even McCain, while critizising Obama, has said so) leads nowhere. If we stop talking to Russia now, we lose any influence we might have. We cannot realistically do much more than talk, so why not try it.
Putin has accepted Merkel's proposal of a contact group possibly under OSCE managment. Since he doesn't accept the current Ukrainian government, that's some progress.
Remember it was EU diplomacy too that gave the protests some breathing space before Yanukovych could have started a massacre. US confrontational diplomacy didn't achieve anything.

UR - according to stephen cohen, leaked conversations of europeans and americans suggested that merkel wanted vitali klitschko on the new government.
Merkel has been pretty open about her support for Klitschko, I have mentioned that multiple times.
The reason Klitschko isn't in the government is this: a) he wants to run for president and b) most people in the current government risk burning themselves politically due to unpopular decisions and are likely not going to be part of the next (elected) government.

My point is more "The parallels to World War Two are concerning and I hope they're meaningless so could you please prove my fears wrong?"
Your fears are wrong because the West is not going to intervene militarily. Worst case scenario is Crimea becoming a part or a satellite of Russia and a civil war in Ukraine, possibly resulting in a break-up. Still I have my doubts how far Putin really wants to risk escalation, he needs Ukraine for his Eurasian Union project.
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Sheb

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Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« Reply #1469 on: March 02, 2014, 06:43:00 pm »

If we keep the Sudetenland analogy, the problem is not a war now, but an emboldened Putin doing the some thing again, probably in the Baltic state.
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