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[Sheb]

Well, it probably would have been a PR move, you know, have some nice pictures of Georgians doing bad stuff or something.

Anyway, I find it funny that you talk of "Ukrainian starting the war", when the invasion already took place. I find Ukrainian restraint admirable.

[Guardian G.I.]

Anti-war protests are happening, including in Moscow.

This might turn out to be a massive shot in the foot for Putin; his popularity had been declining slowly but steadily for years, and while recent protests against Putin were political, now there's the added factor of 'We don't want to die in a nuclear fire/war you dumbass'

According to lenta.ru, which have never been sympathetic to Putin, the average size of all those demonstrations are from 200 to 500 people, just like at average opposition demonstrations. In my opinion the reason why only 200 people showed up, and not 200 000, is simple - bloody KGB general indifference to their cause.

[Sheb]

Yeah, probably. Plus it's not like Putin officially wants to go to war.

Anyway, I really like your avatar. Are potatoes the Belarus equivalent to popcorn?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

So, apparently "Prime Minister" Of Crimea announced that he will use force against Ukrainian units that don't follow his "lawful" orders

Those guys on the blockaded bases in Crimea are doomed if attacked... But still there are no confirmed surrenders or defections. If you don't count some Berkut guys. But those aren't soldiers and never was on our side

[Avis-Mergulus]

Yeah, probably. Plus it's not like Putin officially wants to go to war.

Anyway, I really like your avatar. Are potatoes the Belarus equivalent to popcorn?

According to Russians with no sense of humor, they're the Belarus equivalent of bread. But I did not notice an overabundance of potatoes when I was there.

So, apparently "Prime Minister" Of Crimea announced that he will use force against Ukrainian units that don't follow his "lawful" orders

Those guys on the blockaded bases in Crimea are doomed if attacked... But still there are no confirmed surrenders or defections. If you don't count some Berkut guys. But those aren't soldiers and never was on our side

My TV reports mass defections of Ukrainian army units in Crimea. But it's probably an imperialist liar.

[Guardian G.I.]

So, apparently "Prime Minister" Of Crimea announced that he will use force against Ukrainian units that don't follow his "lawful" orders

Those guys on the blockaded bases in Crimea are doomed if attacked... But still there are no confirmed surrenders or defections. If you don't count some Berkut guys. But those aren't soldiers and never was on our side

My TV reports mass defections of Ukrainian army units in Crimea. But it's probably an imperialist liar.

RT even claims that Ukrainian Navy frigate "Hetman Sahaidachny" defected to Russia. I'm a bit sceptical about all those reports, though.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

War propaganda is starting. Neither Russian nor Ukrainian media can't allow themselves to not use that.


Still I'll never blame that guys if they'll choose to surrender to Russian Marines.

[Avis-Mergulus]

War propaganda is starting. Neither Russian nor Ukrainian media can't allow themselves to not use that.


Still I'll never blame that guys if they'll choose to surrender to Russian Marines.

True on both counts. However, most of the Russian army is also conscripts - fucking barbaric, that.
I have some reasons to believe the defection rumors. Why not, after all? It's not like anybody in Crimea is willing to fight for the party in government.

[Chaoswizkid]

Yup, most russians don't want to fight. Crazy, I know.

I don't think anyone in the West actually thinks poorly of the Russian people. Maybe the ones that bought into Communism (not like they had much choice though) and certainly the leadership and the people who blindly follow said leaders, but I'm pretty sure the general attitude is neutral or better, not really poor.

I personally have mad respect for the Russian people.


Are the Black Sea Fleet marines still considered an elite unit? I know back in WW2 they were called the Black Death or something and were responsible for generally fucking shit up.

[Sheb]

Avis: we don't know exactly who was deployed in Crimea though. My guess is that they're not conscripts, but better units, although it's just that: a guess.

Also, something no one told me: are the Ukrainian military units in Crimea made of Crimean soldiers or not?

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Hmm, so, say Ukraine gives up Crimea. The current transition government looks like a bitch, adds more fuel to right-winger crap, sets a bad precedent as far as ceding territory.. Probably-not-happiness follows.

Say they don't, and don't receive NATO aid, (most likely, given the right wing trouble, distance from the Atlantic/proximity to Russia, lack of prior membership). They could be stuck in a land war and risk a far greater 'intervention'.

Which of those looks more appealing, one wonders.

Also, scrdst, who said anything about nukes?


Yeah sheb, was in an earlier link. Soldiers have more recently been allowed to serve closer to home. So a bunch of the Crimean soldiers are Crimean.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It's not like anybody in Crimea is willing to fight for the party in government.

I think there are guys in Crimea who are willing to fight for their country against invaders. And much more than Russians expect.

The whole idea - "fighting for the party in government" is something I fail to understand...
Do you think that Russians in WW2  fought for Stalin and Communists?

something no one told me: are the Ukrainian military units in Crimea made of Crimean soldiers or not?

Infantry and such are mostly local because it's cheaper to supply them in that way. More elite units and Navy are more mixed

[Avis-Mergulus]

Avis: we don't know exactly who was deployed in Crimea though. My guess is that they're not conscripts, but better units, although it's just that: a guess.

Also, something no one told me: are the Ukrainian military units in Crimea made of Crimean soldiers or not?

I believe the ones that are and the ones from the East are defecting, and the ones from the West are not. That would make both my imperialist TV and UR's Nazi scum TV right. So I think.

It's not like anybody in Crimea is willing to fight for the party in government.

I think there are guys in Crimea who are willing to fight for their country against invaders. And much more than Russians expect.

The whole idea - "fighting for the party in government" is something I fail to understand...
Do you think that Russians in WW2  fought for Stalin and Communists?

Many did, but that is beside the point. Your government did enough to piss the Crimeans off in the course of the twenty years it ruled over independent Ukraine. Most Crimeans still remember the times when a bunch of Western nationalists did not try to forcibly reeducate them, and have no wish to fight for what you so loftily refer to as "their country". It's hard to blame them, though a Svoboda member can certainly try.

[Sheb]

Former Svodoba member. :p

Also, I guess a lot depends on the commander, we shouldn't underestimate the "follow orders" mentality. After all I don't think Berkut fought out of love for Yanukovitch.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Avis-Mergulus, You are so delusional...  Crimea has population of 2+ millions, and you think that each and every one will great Russians as liberators?  What you'll get is new Chechnya. If you invade in "mainland" Ukraine, get ready for widespread guerrilla in Donbass and all other regions.  That will be a huge surprise for Russian soldiers - "how so many Banderas infiltrated Eastern Ukraine?"