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[Knit tie]

The way I see it, many, many territories throughout the history have changed hands so many times that it's almost impossible to discern who is their rightful owner. Therefore, I propose, as I usually prefer, a system of values that leads to as few people dying as possible: the people currently living on a certain territory own it. It is unfair, yes, but it, in my opinion, is less unfair and most importantly less militant than irredentism.

Thus, I believe that if the current inhabitants of Crimea want to be part of Russia, so be it. Just because Putin gets to satisfy his unquenchable power-boner in the process doesn't meen that the Crimeans don't want to secede.

Avis, Putin is a stereotypical despot. He wants to invade because it strokes his ego.

[Sheb]

Knit: the problem is we don't know. No referendum yet, plus with all the turmoil at the time it's not exactly the right time to make such an important decision.

Also, the language law repeal was vetoed. Nothing happened.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Thus, I believe that if the current inhabitants of Crimea want to be part of Russia, so be it. Just because Putin gets to satisfy his unquenchable power-boner in the process doesn't meen that the Crimeans don't want to secede.

Russia already has occupied the area. When did Crimea ask for them to? Did they hold a vote to secede? Remember, the local representatives were removed by the 'armed militias' [KGB] before the occupation, so any votes held now in Crimea are on the Kremlins terms. We've passed the point of self determination, Russia already invaded the place.

If this were any other country Russians would be burning themselves in the streets to decry such blatant imperialism.

[Knit tie]

Thus, I believe that if the current inhabitants of Crimea want to be part of Russia, so be it. Just because Putin gets to satisfy his unquenchable power-boner in the process doesn't meen that the Crimeans don't want to secede.

Russia already has occupied the area. When did Crimea ask for them to? Did they hold a vote to secede?

They didn't, I agree. Putin, as I said, it a power-hungry tyrant. He would've invaded even if the Crimeans were agains it (which they probably are).

[Guardian G.I.]

The way I see it, many, many territories throughout the history have changed hands so many times that it's almost impossible to discern who is their rightful owner. Therefore, I propose, as I usually prefer, a system of values that leads to as few people dying as possible: the people currently living on a certain territory own it. It is unfair, yes, but it, in my opinion, is less unfair and most importantly less militant than irredentism.

We'll have endless arguments about which ethnicity living there owns it instead.

[Knit tie]

The way I see it, many, many territories throughout the history have changed hands so many times that it's almost impossible to discern who is their rightful owner. Therefore, I propose, as I usually prefer, a system of values that leads to as few people dying as possible: the people currently living on a certain territory own it. It is unfair, yes, but it, in my opinion, is less unfair and most importantly less militant than irredentism.

We'll have endless arguments about which ethnicity living there owns it instead.

That's still better than wars.


Anyway, just to make this clear: Putin invaded unlawfully. He is a criminal. I do not suport him in any way, shape or form.

[miljan]

The way I see it, many, many territories throughout the history have changed hands so many times that it's almost impossible to discern who is their rightful owner. Therefore, I propose, as I usually prefer, a system of values that leads to as few people dying as possible: the people currently living on a certain territory own it. It is unfair, yes, but it, in my opinion, is less unfair and most importantly less militant than irredentism.

We'll have endless arguments about which ethnicity living there owns it instead.

That's still better than wars.


Anyway, just to make this clear: Putin invaded unlawfully. He is a criminal. I do not suport him in any way, shape or form.

Is there any type of legit invading? 

[Guardian G.I.]

The way I see it, many, many territories throughout the history have changed hands so many times that it's almost impossible to discern who is their rightful owner. Therefore, I propose, as I usually prefer, a system of values that leads to as few people dying as possible: the people currently living on a certain territory own it. It is unfair, yes, but it, in my opinion, is less unfair and most importantly less militant than irredentism.

We'll have endless arguments about which ethnicity living there owns it instead.

That's still better than wars.


Anyway, just to make this clear: Putin invaded unlawfully. He is a criminal. I do not suport him in any way, shape or form.

Is there any type of legit invading? 

If America invades a country, than yeah. Unlike the horrible Russian Empire, they are 100% genuinely concerned about the well-being of people living there and don't have absolutely any shady political or business interests and never had any. Ever.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

American wars are questionable, but remind me... when the last time USA tried to get a new state?

[miljan]

If America invades a country, than yeah. Unlike the horrible Russian Empire, they are 100% genuinely concerned about the well-being of people living there and don't have absolutely any shady political or business interests and never had any. Ever.

You see, that tells us that both USA and Russia are same shit. Dont know witch is worse.

[Guardian G.I.]

American wars are questionable, but remind me... when the last time USA tried to get a new state?

19th century, but I need to note: Americans don't annex a territory they've taken over, they set up a universally accepted puppet government there instead.

EDIT: fixed historical date, my bad

[Sheb]

GJ, cuts the straw men. No one on this forum supported the Iraq war, and this is also true of the vast majority of Westerners including Barack Obama.

America invading place is bad. Russia invading place is bad too.

[misko27]

And yet when Russia invades a country it isn't imperialist at all.

American wars are questionable, but remind me... when the last time USA tried to get a new state?

Last invasion? 1898, Annexation of Hawaii. They more recently (40s) tried to buy off Greenland, but Denmark wouldn't sell. (Guardian is a little off. 18th century there barely even was an America).

Of course insipid east-west arguing is pointless. What the hell is going on right now?

[miljan]

America invading place is bad. Russia invading place is bad too.

+1

[Knit tie]

American wars are questionable, but remind me... when the last time USA tried to get a new state?

When they tried to install a puppet government in Iraq that would essentially let them exploit the resources of that country without providing any of the benefits that being a part of the US entails. It's pretty much like a colony.

America invading place is bad. Russia invading place is bad too.

+1

+2 Place can secede by itself if it wants to, or stay in Ukraine if it doesn't.