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[MonkeyHead]

I think the world at large would be ok with Crimea determining is own fate (be it staying with the Ukaraine, becoming independant or joining Russia) via legal, fair and open referendum, provided the manner of its choosing was uninfuenced by the presence of Russian troops, and no politicians arms were twisted by hardline elements occuping public installations. Shit, let the UN oversee it. Any outcome which happens as the result of military prssure by Russia, NATO or anyone else will just lead to further problems in the future.

[Guardian G.I.]

It's likely that you have already heard about it but anyway, Putin sent a request to approve military intervention in Ukraine to the upper house of the Russian parliament, which unanimously voted 'yes'. The Federation Council also advocated for calling back Russian ambassador to the United States. There were clashes between pro-Russian demonstrators and Maidan activists in Kharkov with about 100 people injured. In Donetsk, the city administration approved holding a referendum on the situation in Donbass. Russian website Life News claims that Russian military units of the Central Military District are being moved towards the border with Ukraine.

[MonkeyHead]

Yes, just read the same on the BBC. I find it very worrying that the proposal approves troops in the whole of the Ukaraine, not just the Crimea.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

There were clashes between Russian citizens\collaborators and Maidan activists in Kharkov with about 100 people injured.

Fixed that for Guardian

Just remember guys, everything from Russian media source is a misinformation. Especially now


Anyway, It's not about Crimea, Russia is getting ready to full scale invasion, that is obvious

[XXSockXX]

Anyway, It's not about Crimea, Russia is getting ready to full scale invasion, that is obvious

I'm not that sure. Putin knows that nobody will actively try to or realistically be able to stop him. On the other hand, if he does that, we're back in Cold War times.
My guess is that right now, he waits for or is trying to create a situation that can be interpreted as a threat to Russians in Crimea, possibly a clash between Maidan activists and Russian troops, to seize Crimea. That alone shows how unreliable he is as a political partner, he had told Obama and Merkel he'd avoid escalation and now he's full on trying to provoke it.

[misko27]

Putin has not yet decided on whether to exercise his new abilities.

So far, Congress has fallen in line with Obama and denounced Russia while threatening a response.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

XXSockXX, Russian self-propelled howitzers redeployed to Crimea   say that Russians will start advance. That's not even tanks, howitzers are not for seizing cities, they are for engaging blockaded Ukrainian bases

And that "not open fire on invaders, because they may use that as casus beli" strategy will not end in a good way for Ukrainian army

[nenjin]

As expected, the pretext for the use of force is the protection of ethnically Russian people living in the Ukraine. (And Russian military personnel stationed inside the Ukraine.)

The logic on this feels awfully circular. Ukrainian president wants closer ties with Russia, is rejected by the populace. Pro-Russian populace claims they feel threatened, Russia claims it has the right to intercede on their behalf.

As long as the issue can't be solved from within the Ukraine, by all Ukrainians, I see Russia eventually getting what it wants, one way or another. Once honest to god sectarian violence breaks out (if what we're seeing isn't basically already that) there's little to stop Russian from stepping in.

[Sinistar]

Does anyone see the irony of this situation happening exactly in 2014? I guess the Austrian Prime Minister and/or the Habsburg should take cover and stay clear of Belgrade for some time

Oh crap. This would be hilariously awesome coincidence if situation wasn't so serious.

Also, I don't think Urist McManiac was really siding with pro-Russian side, but hey, I lack the witt of some other forum members so I can't really answer with a clever argument. 

Tymoshencko's braids fake, CIA conspiracy suspected.

Am I a horrible person if I say that she is a rather attractive lady?

[XXSockXX]

XXSockXX, Russian self-propelled howitzers redeployed to Crimea   say that Russians will start advance. That's not even tanks, howitzers are not for seizing cities, they are for engaging blockaded Ukrainian bases

And that "not open fire on invaders, because they may use that as casus beli" strategy will not end in a good way for Ukrainian army

What is really shitty about this situation is that even if the Ukrainian army would intervene now, they wouldn't have much of a chance.
Realistically, even the harshest response of the West will not include military intervention, so you're basically up alone against Russia.

Not resisting is giving in to blackmail. It is unfortunately the only way that doesn't involve massive bloodshed. It's a lose-lose situation.

[martinuzz]

Janoekovitsj: "In Mother Russia, mob not lynch me, I lynch mob"

but yeah, somewhat of a serious situation developing there.

[nenjin]

I guess I feel the need to ask this finally.

Why do ethnically Russian Ukrainians crave such strong ties with Russia? Do they hope to benefit economically? Do they attach greater importance to their Russian identity than their own national identity? (Which, to be fair, isn't as old as some countries.) Do they truly fear that non-ethnically-Russian Ukrainians hate them and would exclude them from government or worse?

For an American it's hard to understand, because our national identity isn't really challenged. Our population isn't fluid except for Mexicans (who do sometimes struggle with which to put first: their home or the land of their birth and their ancestors.) But there's really no analog that works for us to understand the situation, or at least the core motivations of those in the Crimea region. Clearly, Russian support is strong there. But what are the underpinnings of that support?

I mean, is Ukraine basically half split between those that historically are terrified of Russia, and half those who became Ukrainian because of political settlements rather than by choice?

[XXSockXX]

But what are the underpinnings of that support?

Someone else may have better answers, but mostly I think it is that many people in Ukraine feel more like Russians and speak Russian exclusively. The country is essentially divided into Ukrainian Ukrainians and Russian Ukrainians.
Also the portrayal of the revolution as a facist coup in Russian and pro-Russian media has fueled a lot of fear in the Russian-speaking parts of the country. While it is not fascist, it is a Western Ukrainian revolution for the most part, so that didn't help with the divide.

[da_nang]

XXSockXX, Russian self-propelled howitzers redeployed to Crimea   say that Russians will start advance. That's not even tanks, howitzers are not for seizing cities, they are for engaging blockaded Ukrainian bases

And that "not open fire on invaders, because they may use that as casus beli" strategy will not end in a good way for Ukrainian army

Eh, if they pull another Mainila, getting casus belli isn't that difficult.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

nenjin

There are 17%, I repeat 17% of Ethnic Russians in Ukraine. That's not half at all. 
Yes, Eastern Ukraine and Western Ukraine are  different in mentality. As... Hmmm....  Texas and Alaska. That doesn't mean that first dreams to join Mexico and the second dreams to join Canada