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[misko27]

And people who claim this was a "Jewish Coup" <-- This is what you call a neonazi

Holy crap that is stupid. And yet the comments still manage to be worse.

Russians don’t have nukes because nukes are a hoax. But HAARP isn’t. And it’s as bad as nukes if not worse. WW3 will be giant city-collapsing earthquakes. Droughts and deluges etc. Pretty godly actually.

According to the Bible, in the Kingdom of God on earth,
 the other nations are kept in line via weather control.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

All nationalists are nazis, yes.

Note pulling the "I'm jewish so I'm right about being scurred about these neonazis" doesn't pan out, I'm Jewish, I keep hearing this and then there's one picture of guys with tangentially neo-nazi imagery [remember, Hitler/Nazis are the one who stole imagery from others].

The fact that they're nationalists and there's been about two pictures of 'nazi' imagery lead me to believe there's not much power in the national socialist bits. If there were, it wouldn't have gone down as.. cleanly. You and I both know the bones these kinds of people have to pick, you really expect them to dally around and play PR games?

There's also things like this. <-- This is what nationalists do

And people who claim this was a "Jewish Coup" <-- This is what you call a neonazi

Are you deliberately ignoring the origins of the Svoboda party? its initial symbol? its stances? its remarks regarding other "inferior" races? yeah. this is a good way to shut people up.

btw, newsflash, there were various jewish meniphestos by leading jewish community figures that were in support of the early nazis.

Nazis/neo-nazis don't play PR games? please. nazi germans were more than excellent at it.

Sheb:
the foundation of the party is rooted in neo-nazis and its leading figures have made their fare share of racist remarks.

whether he support the stance of forcing people to have their ethnicity on their passports is irrelevant, he is supporting a party that officially support this stance.

You're making the claim, it should be easy to find links to support what you say. Get to it.

I find this very amusing since there's been plenty of Jewish support for the revolution and Jews on the streets with these 'nazis' and yet there's been 0, yes, count them 0 violent deaths of Jews in these instances. You and I both know random line-toting nazis don't play that. Don't act like you truly believe this is the case, as you should be well aware that people with ideologies like that will make B-lines for synagogues, like in Egypt. This hasn't happened in Ukraine.

But wait, you can come back and say 'but that's just propaganda!' Which is likely the next step here.

[Sheb]

Still, I claim that while Svodoba got nasty people and is certainly not a party I like they're not neo-Nazis. Nor are most of their members.

You still have to substantiate anything beyond "Hey, their old logo was scary and one of their peep sayed anti-semitic things a few years ago!".

Plus Svodoba is only part of the revolution. The revolution ain't anti-semitic (it's anti-Russian, and that' its own problem tough.)

[XXSockXX]

The fact that they're nationalists and there's been about two pictures of 'nazi' imagery lead me to believe there's not much power in the national socialist bits.

Not to contradict the rest of what you said, but to be fair, there are more than 2 pictures with neo-nazi imagery. I've seen some protesters (presumably Right Sector members) wearing "Thor Steinar" clothing. Also that Right Sector video message that was posted in this thread did feature the Black Sun prominently, a symbol that is - among other things - a popular Swastika substitute.

Are you deliberately ignoring the origins of the Svoboda party? its initial symbol? its stances? its remarks regarding other "inferior" races? yeah. this is a good way to shut people up.

As to the origins of the Svoboda party - I am inclined to believe that in a developing democracy, which Ukraine still is, parties may form at the fringes and grow out of that stuff later. Of course this has to be proven by their current words and actions.

[Sinistar]

And people who claim this was a "Jewish Coup" <-- This is what you call a neonazi

Whoa, that site...just...whooooa.
Out of interest, I started reading some other articles and it's almost a fascinating mishmash of pseudo-science, bible-humping and plain silliness.

As for Svoboda and "neo-nazis" - I think saying neo-nazis were "key element" in making the current situation in Ukraine a reality is a bit much. There was quite some talk about more extreme nationalists being a part of demonstrations, but even if Svoboda was or is still a neo-nazi group in it's core (I'm saying "if" because I do not know much about them), in the end it wasn't the "Svoboda" that forced Yanukovych to flee, was it?

[Sheb]

Is Thor Steinar always a far-right stuff though? I know that on some places Lonsdale clothing is considered neo-nazis wear (Look at the central four letters...), but I know plenty of other types that wear it because its comfortable and stuff.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

burningpet, please, don't infarct the thread with that "Svoboda are nazies" thing again. It's tiresome to talk about it over again. And I as a former member of Svoboda and grandson of Sachsenhausen prisoner find it insulting. 

also, there are a lot of israeli-arabs that goes to Ukraine to study and they have made repeating reports of strong rise in neo-nazism and racism in Ukraine.

Yeah, I posted some screenshot's from Berkut's Facebook page earlier   Unfortunately Racism, especially antisemitism  is rather common in Ukraine.  But that has nothing to do with Ukrainian nationalism. Most racist around there are nation-less people with Soviet mentality.  I am Ukrainian Nationalist and I view Israel as one of the best role models of how one should build a national state. And works of Ze'ev Jabotinsky influenced my political views no much less than Bandera, Mikhnovsky or Dontsov

from the israeli journalists that has been there

Can you name me what Israeli journalists claim stuff like that?  And how popular in Israel they are?

Knowing Israeli foreign politics I would be very surprised if Israeli government failed to act if they believed that  Jews in Ukraine are in danger

BTW, Speaking about Foreign policy of Israel

Leaders of Right Sector ensured the Israeli ambassador Reuven El Din that the group rejects anti-semitism, chauvinism, and xenophobia. A statement on the Israeli embassy read "The leader of the movement informed the Ambassador about his views on the future of Ukraine, and stressed that the move follows a tolerant policy on national issues" and that "The aim of the movement is to build a democratic Ukraine, transparent government, combat corruption, and equal opportunities for all nations and peoples, and to build a nation-state ruled by democracy." They also stated they would open a hotline with the embassy to cooperate in case of provocations in the future

And that is the guys who call Svoboda too liberal and too conformist

[XXSockXX]

Is Thor Steinar always a far-right stuff though? I know that on some places Lonsdale clothing is considered neo-nazis wear (Look at the central four letters...), but I know plenty of other types that wear it because its comfortable and stuff.

Thor Steinar is much more associated with that stuff than Lonsdale. In Germany it's considered the Neo-Nazi brand.
I'm more lenient with the Black Sun, there are people using it for non-political purposes, but it didn't really look like the guys in the video were fans of certain music genres or occultists to me. 

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Not to contradict the rest of what you said, but to be fair, there are more than 2 pictures with neo-nazi imagery. I've seen some protesters (presumably Right Sector members) wearing "Thor Steinar" clothing. Also that Right Sector video message that was posted in this thread did feature the Black Sun prominently, a symbol that is - among other things - a popular Swastika substitute.

I haven't seen more than a tiny handful of cherry picked examples usually featured on Russian websites, so, can't blame me for being skeptical when I myself can't find images of nazi symbolism in the Ukrainian protests.

I mean, the neo-nazis are the ones claiming this was all caused by Jews and their damned cabal with the Svodoba/Right Sector [NSFW] [which, honestly, makes me want to laugh so hard I almost cry].. I guess the Jews should blame this all on nazis? Full circle.

Note I'm being extremely tongue-in-cheek. Should be obvious. Noone here is a nazi [well the people in the topic I just linked may be], nor do they deserve to be termed as such until policies are instigated that show this. We dilute the meaning of Naziism when you throw it onto people you think might tangentially be, and then stretch the definition to encompass that.

BTW, Speaking about Foreign policy of Israel

Leaders of Right Sector ensured the Israeli ambassador Reuven El Din that the group rejects anti-semitism, chauvinism, and xenophobia. A statement on the Israeli embassy read "The leader of the movement informed the Ambassador about his views on the future of Ukraine, and stressed that the move follows a tolerant policy on national issues" and that "The aim of the movement is to build a democratic Ukraine, transparent government, combat corruption, and equal opportunities for all nations and peoples, and to build a nation-state ruled by democracy." They also stated they would open a hotline with the embassy to cooperate in case of provocations in the future

And that is the guys who call Svoboda too liberal and too conformist

http://embassies.gov.il/kiev/NewsAndEvents/Pages/DinElYaroshMeeting27Feb2014.aspx

Source for those who are wondering.

[XXSockXX]

I haven't seen more than a tiny handful of cherry picked examples usually featured on Russian websites, so, can't blame me for being skeptical when I myself can't find images of nazi symbolism in the Ukrainian protests.

I have seen some in German TV and news reports, as I said before, German media has been watching that carefully. As I also said, correspondents seem to think that it's not something we should worry too much about currently.

Noone here is a nazi [well the people in the topic I just linked may be], nor do they deserve to be termed as such until policies are instigated that show this. We dilute the meaning of Naziism when you throw it onto people you think might tangentially be, and then stretch the definition to encompass that.

That is pretty much my opinion too.

[misko27]

Anyway, the US has promised a loan to Ukraine, about $1 Billion or so, as well as other direct financial help. It's not enough on it's own to put Ukraine out of emergency crisis (Ukraine needs a grand total of $35 Billion), but it's nonetheless a sizable amount towards resolving their impending financial doom.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'd say that even majority of guys who call themselves national-socialists and praise Hitler aren't neo-Nazi. Especially teenager "neo-nazies"

[Sheb]

It's 35 billions over the next 2-3 years, not right now.

[10ebbor10]

Link

Anyway, this was in the newspaper today. Have we talked about this yet?

Edit: There appears to be a significant difference between the things I found in my newspaper, and the news in the article. My (daily, free, and >50% advertisement) paper told me that Yanukovich and co managed to steal 70 billion from state treasuries. Appears not to be accurate.

[XXSockXX]

I'd say that even majority of guys who call themselves national-socialists and praise Hitler aren't neo-Nazi. Especially teenager "neo-nazies"

That is - or at least I hope so - what I meant with people in a developing democracy growing out of extremism later. In a polarizing system like Ukraine used to have, there is a tendency towards extremism, the "Nazis vs Soviets" line of thinking. My hope is that a lot of that is a symptom of rebellion and will move towards more moderate and reasonable positions, if Ukraine manages to become more democratic as a whole.

There appears to be a significant difference between the things I found in my newspaper, and the news in the article. My (daily, free, and >50% advertisement) paper told me that Yanukovich and co managed to steal 70 billion from state treasuries. Appears not to be accurate.

I dunno, there seem to be two different things here:

In addition to the missing $37 billion, Yatseniuk said as much as $70 billion had been sent out of the country during Yanukovich's three-year rule, although he did not make clear how much of this capital flight was illegal.