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[LordSlowpoke]

Sorry for my ignorance but I'm not very aware events in Ukraine. What are the sides and what are their stances, grievances, reasons for acting out, etc.?

Basically, the Ukraine can end up as either a German puppet state or a Russian one.

* LordSlowpoke equips STICK

the eu is not a german puppet state _yet so take your notions of not being a democratic union of pure love and put them alongside the reptilians and putin's marvelous gas gnomes

[Bouchart]

the eu is not a german puppet state _yet

Greece is a slave state of Germany...Ukraine won't be far behind.

[XXSockXX]

Speaking of provocateurs, there still are armed rebels searching the Hotel Ukraine (where the journalists are) for a sniper. Seems pretty chaotic.

According to Polish Prime Minister Tusk, Yanukovych agreed to the Foreign Ministers to have elections later this year. The EU has agreed on sanctions, negotiations continue. Let's hope there will be some kind of agreement.

Escuse me, but this is not funny.
This shoes case suddenly turns all "police randomly shooting everybody" thing into "provocateurs attack both police and protesters". If the second variant gets officially confirmed, there will be still chance to end all peacefully.
Too bad UkrainianRanger left the thread and is probably on the way to Kiev to avenge his friends without even trying to figure out the actual murderers.

No, it doesn't, and no UR is not on the way to Kiev, he's just not posting because he's too emotionally involved.
As said earlier, conspiracy theories are really pointless in this situation. Also please don't start resorting to personal attacks, that's also pointless.

By the way, gentlemen, I now adress to those of you who live outside the former Soviet Union. I want to ask if you have Maidan reports in your mass media (radio, TV, newspapers) or you get it via internet only. Because in Russia journalists say that a lot of europeans and americans keep calling Euromaidan a peaceful protest because they simply do not know what is actually going on right now.

It's in all mass media here (Germany). It's also very clear that it is not at all peaceful anymore and hasn't been in a while.

Sorry for my ignorance but I'm not very aware events in Ukraine. What are the sides and what are their stances, grievances, reasons for acting out, etc.?

Basically, the Ukraine can end up as either a German puppet state or a Russian one.

* LordSlowpoke equips STICK

the eu is not a german puppet state _yet so take your notions of not being a democratic union of pure love and put them alongside the reptilians and putin's marvelous gas gnomes

I fully agree with LordSlowpoke, it's come that far  .

[Sheb]

The only mass media I listen to is the public radio (RTBF) and they do have fairly good coverage of Maidan, including the fact that it's a warzone and that protesters aren't pacifists (This morning was described as "The protesters broke the ceasefire b trying to charge the police out of Maidan before the police used guns to stop it" for exemple).

Bouchart: Greece is free to quit the Euro or refuse the aid package the rest of the EU offered them. Greece is like a drug addict that messed up big time, and its family agreed to lend him money only on the condition that he goes cold turkey. Sure ain't nice to go cold turkey, but you can't call that slavery.

Maybe Germany and other creditor countries should have been more generous and included other form of help (like Eurobonds). I think so. But calling it slavery is totally unfair.

[WarRoot]

Transcarpathian events:
Svoboda calls Party of Regions and communist reps to step down or they will feel the righteous justice of Ukrainians.
Not sure if they got scared or it's just a coincidence but most of the reps have left the Party of Regions.
The council has declared the region independent of Yanukovich, as a bonus the police there has sworn loyalty to the people.

[webber]

And frankly, your theory is ridulous. You're saying that hundreds of guys managed to pass of as policemen, capturing hundreds of uniform and hundred of identical civilian shoes but not enough combat boots (Your "they do not fit" explanation may work for a few, but wouldn't do when you seize hundreds of them. Except if Berkut is made of genetically-engineered people with tiny feet or something.)

And I don't really see what the Olympics have to do with this.

hundreds of guys

50 for example, enough to show the illusion of "yellow stripes are together with usual police"

capturing hundreds of uniform

Half of the hundred.
They have been capturing Berkut equipment and since the first clashes on Grushevskogo street.
Also, there are reports of MIA/MD warehouse captured.
Also, MIA barracks in Lviv are captured.
Also, you can buy uniforms in store. Not exactly Berkut, but with some crafting...

hundred of identical civilian shoes

Your "they do not fit" explanation may work for a few

Ahem. Even when discribing the first photo I said that one guy is wearing shoes, other - something like sneakers or running shoes or "krossovki" as we call them. Also clearly MOST yellow stripes have proper boots, for example the sniper guy.

Except if Berkut is made of genetically-engineered people with tiny feet

Lol, you`re almost right. I don`t know if this is exactly true for Berkut, but to assign for some military(airborne troops) and police(BARS) units you must be 180+ cm tall. So if it`s true, generic set of Berkut shoes will be roughly one (big) size, and when trying to put them on a bunch of generic people the guys with small feet will have a problem.

And I don't really see what the Olympics have to do with this.

Common rummor that after Olympics Russia will be able to act more boldly about the crisis in Ukraine, because Russia won`t get "we boycott your Olympics!" in response.

[Sheb]

Fuck, the country is falling apart. My money is on Yanukovitch out and Crimea as yet another Russian-backed pseudo-independent state.

Plus that group would need to make it into Maidan undetected. And we've not seen any declaration of the MIA saying "Yellow stripes aren't policemen", which you would expect in such circumstance.

[Comrade P.]

Sheb, XXXSockXXX, thank you. I was about to think that they finally said something that is completely true on the state-controlled channel. I knew that wouldn't be so. They were talking lots of things, mostly confirmed from multiple sources and blah blah blah. I knew that they would spoil this report with some bias, and know I know exactly where it was.

[webber]

Too bad UkrainianRanger left the thread and is probably on the way to Kiev to avenge his friends without even trying to figure out the actual murderers.

Ummm, dude, this might not be the best statement to make. Personal attacks are highly frowned upon here

This was not meant to be personal attack. Sad that UR kind of ninja`d me with his from-readonly post and because of this I sounded sarcastic, but when writing this I truly believed that he left the thread.

[Sheb]

Also webber, even RT accept those guys with the yellow armbands are policemen. Or are you going to try to convince us that RT has been infiltrated by Western agents?

[Ghazkull]

if anything russia can use sochi as a decoy while they help the Government in Ukraine.

But in any case, webber your trying too hard here to see something thats not necessarily there. You're pointing at those boots constantly, but all i can see is four or 5 guys in uniforms which could or could not be Berkut, with shoes that match. THEY ALL WEAR THE SAME DAMN SHOES. Whether those are Civilian Boots or Combat boots i have no idea.

We know both sides are shooting that is a FACT.
Your argument to make this a Conspiracy is flimsy at best. All i've seen as proof from you so far (and just what you say doesn't count, i want links to videos and pictures and news articles) is a picture about somebody being chained to some kind of podest, a wounded (i think i saw him move his arm although the quality was bad) or dead man whom i can't discern on which side he stands with a medic showing the wounds and the above mentioned picture. If you want anybody to believe your theory here you need to give us soemthing more substantial.

I value your input and am interested in the other side of things but just throwing around wild conspiracy theories and playing the Third Reich-Card isn't really giving anything you say credibility. Yeah UR is putting in his own personal opinion too but he is delivering facts and proof to sustain them properly ( at least most of the time).

and what i just wrote was ninjaed...so if anything was turned invalid above its due to me being too lazy to reedit the entire post again.

In any case to answer Bouchart. I truly feel insulted by this notion. Greece is not at all enslaved. They fucked up their country entirely on their own. Germany is lending a hand. They could refuse it at any time. Plus most of Germany doesn't want anything to do with Greece i know that public opinion is leaning more towards "fuck'em let them fix their own shit." a notion which i personally agree with due to the fact that germany itself is drowning in debt. But that just as a side note and has nothing to do with the thread.
Back to the topic: last i heard the European Union was still composed of states of equal importance. Yes Germany has a greater weight than other states but thats due to the fact that Germany is providing a big chunk of the population and the money in the EU. Thus calling other member states puppet states of Germany is like calling Wisconsin a Puppet State of Texas because it has a greater weight in USA politics.

ah great and there i was ninjaed again...same as above applies.

[XXSockXX]

I'm just watching a special report on German TV. Their correspondent in Kiev said, they had heard rumors that the guys with the yellow stripes are a special force called Omega units, who are directly responsible to the president and have been seen near the presidential seat.
As I understand it the yellow stripes cover up the normal unit tags. Correspondents have filmed these guys and seen them with the police force, but what exactly they are is not verified.

The correspondents have seen both police and rebels shooting at each other, which again underlines that there is no more need for cover-ups.

[Sergarr]

Not really related, but I wonder, how will all these events affect a possibility of Scotland independence?

[10ebbor10]

Additionally, the problems in Greece were caused through wild spread corruption. Greece systematically falsified economic results in order to be able to enter the euro, which created a bubble which soon burst.

Additionally, while Germany has a dominance in the parliament, it's far from absolute, and the real power in the European Union is centered in the Commission, in which each nation is equally represented, and which for the majority of it's decisions, relies on unanimous decision making.

Not really related, but I wonder, how will all these events affect a possibility of Scotland independence?

Probably not at all. There's a world of difference between Ukraine and the UK, and there're no direct links.

[webber]

Plus that group would need to make it into Maidan undetected. And we've not seen any declaration of the MIA saying "Yellow stripes aren't policemen", which you would expect in such circumstance.

Make it into Maidan undetected is not a big deal. It seems that you overestimate the police presence. And underestimate the number of connected streets.

I would like to see such declaration too, but MIA forces were never fast, and now they are under pressure, and also our government just cannot into information warfare.