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Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 309683 times)

Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #360 on: February 19, 2014, 07:48:54 am »

Are airmobile units in Ukraine some kind of elite units like in France ?
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Sergarr

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #361 on: February 19, 2014, 07:51:45 am »

In Russia these airmobile units are called "VDV" and they are considered to be pretty elite.
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Owlbread

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #362 on: February 19, 2014, 08:02:51 am »

In Russia these airmobile units are called "VDV" and they are considered to be pretty elite.

Airborne is what we would call them. Paratroopers.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 08:10:50 am by Owlbread »
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Sergarr

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #363 on: February 19, 2014, 08:06:27 am »

Now I imagine a thousand parachutes over the Maidan.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #364 on: February 19, 2014, 08:11:59 am »

To be precise This and This are ordered to move to Kiyv

I am still hoping that they will not follow criminal orders. They participated in peacekeeping missions, they had joint exercises with NATO forces
But I hoped that majority of police will not follow such orders, too.  So I am not optimistic at all....

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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #365 on: February 19, 2014, 08:54:00 am »

Poland's Foreign Minister Sikorski is going to travel to Kiev for negotiations. The EU Foreign Ministers are also going to meet to talk about Ukraine. The EU still does not have a coherent position. There are more politicians demanding sanctions now, but from what I've seen we're still talking about sanctions against individuals in the government. Economic sanctions are seen with scepticism, because there are fears Ukraine might go bankrupt.
Ex-Chancellor Schröder was urged to mediate (he's best buddies with Putin), but he recommended UN mediation instead, because the EU wasn't impartial enough anymore due to their support for the opposition (Klitschko was meeting with Merkel again last week for example).
Something like that seems to be behind the indecisiveness of the EU as a whole, they want to support the protests while still being able to negotiate with the government.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #366 on: February 19, 2014, 08:57:52 am »

Indecisiveness is the EU's basic stance. It's hard to make 28 Foreign Ministers agree on anything. Anyway, Belgium, France, Poland and Sweden have called for EU sanctions now. Notably, Sweden's Foreign minister is Carl Bildt, probably the best-respected diplomat in the whole of the EU.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #367 on: February 19, 2014, 09:06:02 am »

Yeah, Bildt is one of the more outspoken ones, judging by his tweets. Also Czech President Zeman has demanded new elections in Ukraine.
It looks like they are going to issue sanctions tomorrow, but these will most likely be just some visa-restrictions and freezing of bank accounts for high-ranking officials. So if these guys don't have a lot of money sitting in EU banks, this is not going to do all that much.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #368 on: February 19, 2014, 09:13:57 am »

Those kind of sanctions can be surprisingly effective given the sheer amount of cash Oligarchs have in place like London. It could turn them against the regime.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #369 on: February 19, 2014, 09:21:43 am »

Sure, it's just a question of whether any oligarchs are going to be hit with the sanctions. All I have heard is about sanctions against "those responsible" for the violence, which implies government officials. There have been reports about powerful oligarchs withdrawing their support for the government, but apparently it's not enough do change anything yet.

I still hope that the government will avoid a full-out escalation though, because it's bad for business. They should have some basic sense of self-preservation.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #370 on: February 19, 2014, 09:39:11 am »

Quote
They should have some basic sense of self-preservation.
Exactly
They have two choices
a) Lose  everything and go to the jail (or get hanged)
b) Lose access to Europe and some money.

It's too late for any sanctions. Time for humanitarian aid. Syria is almost there.
Only this time Russia will support the dictator even more and that will be near EU's borders.
Time to get very deeply concerned
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #371 on: February 19, 2014, 09:56:34 am »

They seem to be playing with escalation indeed. Secret Service is going to launch a nation-wide anti-terror operation and the police is going to try to clear Maidan again this evening. So that's not good.
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Helgoland

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #372 on: February 19, 2014, 09:59:28 am »

I still dream of International Brigades like in the Spanish Civil War - but it didn't work then, and it won't work now...

(I liked the Schröder bit, by the way - he seems like the right guy for the job. He's probably to chummy with Putin, though :/ )
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

scrdest

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #373 on: February 19, 2014, 10:01:07 am »

I think that if the government SUCCEEDED with suppressing the protests, they would only make a much bigger problem for themselves because if terrorism is going to pop up, it's when there are no other options.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #374 on: February 19, 2014, 10:04:50 am »

I don't know. Protests are weird sometime. Remember Gezi? It just went quiet after a while.

I'm seeing lots of bad comments about the protesters being far-right radicals, which is.. true. I think they'd get more support from Europe otherwise.  Nationalism ain't popular in Western Europe.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.
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