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Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 311651 times)

olemars

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #720 on: February 22, 2014, 10:13:04 am »


Russian government doing their best to defuse the situation.
Quote
Reuters is snapping excerpts from a speech by Sergei Lavrov, the Russian minister for foreign affairs.

    RUSSIA’S LAVROV SAYS UKRAINIAN OPPOSITION FAILED TO DELIVER ON DEAL SINGED WITH PRESIDENT YANUKOVICH ON FEB.21
    LAVROV SAYS UKRAINIAN OPPOSITION LED BY “ARMED EXTREMISTS AND POGROMISTS” WHOSE ACTIONS POSE DIRECT THREAT TO UKRAINE’S SOVEREIGNTY, CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER
    LAVROV CALLS ON GERMANY, POLAND, FRANCE TO USE INFLUENCE WITH UKRAINE’S OPPOSITION TO ENSURE IMMEDIATE FULFILMENT OF FEB.21 AGREEMENT
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10ebbor10

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #721 on: February 22, 2014, 10:17:07 am »

Quote from: Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski
No coup in Kiev. Gov. buildings got abandoned. Speaker of Rada elected legally. Pres. VYanukovych has 24h to sign 04 Const. into law
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #722 on: February 22, 2014, 10:20:58 am »

Pro-unification protests in Sevastopol.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #723 on: February 22, 2014, 10:25:13 am »

At least the army has announced they will not intervene. Security forces also said in parliament they won't intervene.

Everything else doesn't look so good, looks like the country might break apart. Police is "joining the people" in both parts of the country.

EDIT:
Parliament in Kiev has now impeached Yanukovych, sets presidential elections for May 25.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:30:33 am by XXSockXX »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #724 on: February 22, 2014, 10:38:01 am »

Well, that's one agreement of the table. If Yanukovich keeps his promise that he will not step down, then I guess we have a problem, and a break-up seems likely.

Edit: Anyway, Lenin is falling all over the place.
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XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #725 on: February 22, 2014, 10:44:03 am »

Yeah, I wonder how the rest of the country will take this. MPs declared him constitutionally unable to carry out his duties, but if regional governments disagree and Yanukovych himself doesn't accept it, we have a huge problem. Also wonder how Russia will react, they asked the EU to make sure the agreement is kept, but now it's broken.

There are already reports about pro-russian protests in Crimea, but the Tatar minority there is very pro-Maidan. Lot of potential for conflict.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:50:08 am by XXSockXX »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #726 on: February 22, 2014, 10:49:35 am »

Well, some of the eastern regional parliaments declared the Rada unconstitutionally fit to carry out it's duties, so...
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #727 on: February 22, 2014, 10:53:14 am »

So, if the 2004 Constitution is back and we have a parliamentary system now, did the new Rada vote in a new government yet?
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

10ebbor10

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #728 on: February 22, 2014, 10:54:20 am »

The constitution isn't back yet. It has passed parliament, but it still needs to be signed by the president, who has now been impeached. Stuff got complicated.

Edit: Anyway, Yulia Tymenshenko has left the hospital in Khariv, so ...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:57:23 am by 10ebbor10 »
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XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #729 on: February 22, 2014, 10:55:28 am »

Hm, apparently parliament did not follow the constitutional procedure for deposing the president, I assume because technically the old constitution is still in place.

All important government posts (Ministrys of Defense and Interior, General Prosecutor, President of Parliament) are now held by opposition members.

EU seems to accept it, though they haven't really said much yet.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:57:13 am by XXSockXX »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #730 on: February 22, 2014, 10:58:12 am »

The EU is going to wait for things to stop changing in their favor before making any complaints whatsoever.

Edit: BBC tells me that Yanukovich apparently doesn't accept the decision to remove him from power.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:02:40 am by 10ebbor10 »
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XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #731 on: February 22, 2014, 11:01:51 am »

Problem is, if the impeachment was - even on a technicality - unconstitutional, this is a good argument for anyone who wants to call this a coup.

Tymoshenko is supposed to be on the way to Kiev and may even speak on Maidan. She already announced she's going to run for president in the May elections, no surprise there.

British and German FMs seem to have agreed to support the new government and push for financial help.

Lots of reports about people being shocked by Yanuk's lifestyle as evident from his mansion. That's where all the tax money went apparently.


EDIT:
I also wanted to respond to this earlier point:
Quote
remember the polish foreign minister.

Oh yes.... I will.  One of the results of all shit happened in the last three month - we have much less pro-EU guys here after EU did nothing but express their deep concern while situation escalated and when they finally started to act after the many deaths... they offer to leave the murderer in place for some more time
I very much agree that the EU should have acted weeks, if not months, earlier.
However in seeking a compromise with Yanukovych they actually achieved something to move this forward and quite likely to prevent bloodshed. It seems plausible to me that Yanukovych was considering cracking down on the protests with more violent force on a larger scale, so at least the compromise helped to prevent that. The Polish FM might have been right, maybe that was what Yanukovych actually threatened to do in the negotiations.
It's also noteworthy that it was not US diplomacy, which was way more confrontational towards both Yanuk and Russia, that achieved anything here.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:44:38 am by XXSockXX »
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Sergarr

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #732 on: February 22, 2014, 12:01:14 pm »

Yanuk's lifestyle as evident from his mansion. That's where all the tax money went apparently.
How many cars?
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._.

XXSockXX

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #733 on: February 22, 2014, 12:12:58 pm »

Yanuk's lifestyle as evident from his mansion. That's where all the tax money went apparently.
How many cars?
Lots. Also nice house, nice boat, nice zoo.
Collecting classical cars is in the best interest of the nation apparently.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 12:18:42 pm by XXSockXX »
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MarcAFK

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #734 on: February 22, 2014, 12:28:10 pm »

It's not like he has a collection of lambourginis and large african mammals, I don't want to defend him but I doubt His house, boat, zoo and car collection recieved even a small percentage of his wealth, that gold however, I'd like to know more information, what was found, where it was found, it's estimated value etc.
I'm sure he kept most of his funds hidden somewhere far safer than inside a country where many people want him dead.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.
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