Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[scrdest]

True one would demand Poland from sea to sea!

Even radicals can be modest.  He did label central Ukraine as a Polish colony though, so maybe he is not that modest after all.

I have to correct what I said earlier: The ultimatum until Saturday was made by speakers of the Right Sector, who also doesn't want to disarm.
People on Maidan applauded that though and, from what correspondents are saying, agree that Yanukovych should step down.

No, UR was completely serious. It had been a thing in the past, with the exact slogan UR posted.

[Kicior]

Personally, if I was among the protestors, there would be NO WAY I would disarm until I'd seen actual stuff, actually done.

Giving up all of their trump cards, their momentum, and their fallbacks in exchange for what is, quite honestly, a fairly limited promise, followed by keeping the guy who previously lied to them and tried to suppress them in power, does NOT seem like a wise decision for anyone.

I guess they wouldn't negotiate if they didn't have too. Maybe their "trump cards" aren't enough to make sure their demands will be met and they need a compromise. Or maybe I'm just wrong

[GlyphGryph]

I guess they wouldn't negotiate if they didn't have too.

The protestors themselves don't seem to be all too keen on compromising, and the demands of the protestors are not necessarily in the interests of those who made this compromise.

"The Opposition" here refer specifically to Vitali Klitschko and his Ukranian Democratic Alliance for Reform party.

He has certainly cast his lot with the protestors, but he is also is a politician and member of the government, as are the rest of the "opposition" that did the negotiation.

The things that are best for the politicians that brokered the agreement aren't necessarily the things that are best for the people on the street risking their lives.

And he is a far cry from representing the protestors as a whole - without their support, the agreement is meaningless.

On the ground:
“We’re afraid the politicians -- from both sides, yes, from the opposition, too -- will cheat us again,” Sergiy said.

Imagine in the US if Harry Reid presumed to speak for Occupy, or Bohner for the entire tea party. That's the situation you've get here - the establishment negotiating with itself. No guarantee people will actually be left happy with the result of that. No member of the protests that wasn't already a member of the establishment has, to my knowledge, even been invited to the negotiating table.

UkrainianRanger - What's your take on the situation? Also, the guy who got freed was arrested for embezzling and some Russian deal, right? Do you think his release was important and the charges a farce, or do you just see it as the politicians looking after their own and seizing the opportunity to push their own agenda?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

UkrainianRanger - What's your take on the situation?

I really don't know what will happen tomorrow, too many scenarios. Variants vary from Syria to majority of military and police switching to Maydan's side and swift arrests of that ruling party members who didn't ran away in time

Also, the guy who got freed was arrested for embezzling and
some Russian deal, right? Do you think his release was important and the charges a farce, or do you just see it as the politicians looking after their own and seizing the opportunity to push their own agenda?

The guy? Oh you mean Tymoshenko...  I don't think she is important in current situation. She was very important few months back, but now.... electoral maps are redrawn, new leaders emerged, values of people changed

The charges were farce. I can say that even with all my dislike towards Tymoshenko and her party

[XXSockXX]

Correspondents think the situation on Maidan is tense.

Yanukovych himself has left Kiev for Kharkiv. There was a meeting of his party scheduled there, which he may want to attend. There are rumors however he's also taken his personal stuff from the presidential seat with him. There are also rumors he's gone to Moscow.

Vitaliy Zakharchenko, now former Minister of the Interior and main responsible for the police violence, is reported to have left Ukraine to Belarus.

Political commentators here think Tymoshenko still has a lot of influence within her own party, but probably not much beyond that. The streets have kind of moved on from the politicians, so the oppositions influence is somewhat limited. Klitchko for example was booed on Maidan for signing the compromise agreement.

Political commentators also point out that breaking promises, even to Putin, is Yanukovych's standard modus operandi, so they wonder what he'll come up with and understand the protesters distrust and desire to see him on a tribunal.

No, UR was completely serious. It had been a thing in the past, with the exact slogan UR posted.

I know. There are Germans who paint maps without Poland too. We all have guys like that.

[Helgoland]

Anyway - protesters on Maidan threaten to storm the parliament if the president doesn't resign until Saturday 10 o'clock.

And apparently there are no more police between parliament and protesters - it's actually guarded by Maidan activists. Or so I hear...

[Sergarr]

If Yanukovich flees to Russia now, then he should not have been a president at all.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I don't want to be overly optimistic but it looks like it is victory of the revolution

Now we need to stop their plan B - separatism to rule at least somewhere

[Sergarr]

actually the president was the least of your worries.

now you have to deal with all the foreign influence, which is not at your side at all.

remember the polish foreign minister.

[10ebbor10]

They had to worry just as much about foreign influence before this entire thing took off.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

remember the polish foreign minister.

Oh yes.... I will.  One of the results of all shit happened in the last three month - we have much less pro-EU guys here after EU did nothing but express their deep concern while situation escalated and when they finally started to act after the many deaths... they offer to leave the murderer in place for some more time

[Sergarr]

Does that mean that Ukraine isn't going to join NATO any time soon?

[Guardian G.I.]

Russian sources claim that Yanukovich is in Kharkov at the moment. He won't attend the ongoing meeting of regional deputies of the Party of Regions.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

 

Does that mean that Ukraine isn't going to join NATO any time soon?

NATO and EU are very different organizations. NATO means global security, EU economic integration. As for where Ukraine will go... let's wait how will everything end, as long as the last Yanukovitch card "I'll take away part of Ukraine away to rule at least here " is in the game we can't celebrate and make long term plans

[Guardian G.I.]

As for where Ukraine will go... let's wait how will everything end, as long as the last Yanukovitch card "I'll take away part of Ukraine away to rule at least here " is in the game we can't celebrate and make long term plans

In my opinion, if the South-East declares independence from the government in Kiev, Yanukovich won't become its ruler. It will be a newer and more controllable figure (for Russia) like the regional governor of Kharkov Mikhail Dobkin.

EDIT: I'm watching Rossiya 24's live broadcast of Kharkov's meeting. One of the speakers announced that 'banderites' are planning to launch a full-scale attack to retake South-East Ukraine, and that everyone present should be ready for general mobilization. That doesn't sound good.