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Author Topic: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread  (Read 305836 times)

scrdest

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #615 on: February 21, 2014, 03:39:46 am »

Apparently Yanukovitch reached a deal with the opposition this morning. Details are still fuzzy, but include constitutional reform, presidential elections and a coalition government. Nothing about an amnesty.

I would err on the side of caution, although it might be that the situation at Crimea and signals from Russia made him realize he needs to stabilize the situation.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #616 on: February 21, 2014, 03:47:43 am »

Apparently the deal will be signed at noon (10 am GMT). I cann't find out wether Svodoba's leader was at the negociation table. If the deal doesn't offer an amnesty or the immediate resignation of Yanukovitch, it's not clear protesters on the ground will accept it.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #617 on: February 21, 2014, 03:53:15 am »

Apparently the deal will be signed at noon (10 am GMT). I cann't find out wether Svodoba's leader was at the negociation table. If the deal doesn't offer an amnesty or the immediate resignation of Yanukovitch, it's not clear protesters on the ground will accept it.
It will be interesting to see will the Right Sector radicals accept it or not.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #618 on: February 21, 2014, 04:25:52 am »

Hard to say when we don't even know what's in it. Also, the Polish FM apparently tweeted this morning saying the negociations broke down.
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olemars

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #619 on: February 21, 2014, 04:32:36 am »

The news here says the deal is to revert the constitution to the 2004 version, form a coalition government within 10 days and new presidential elections in december. Klitchko, Tyahnybok and Yatsenyuk participated from the opposition. FM's and diplomats from France, Poland, Germany and Russia mediated.
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Sheb

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #620 on: February 21, 2014, 04:34:39 am »

No amnesty though... That's hard, because for a lot of protesters, any peace without amnest mean the risk of a lengthy jail term. On the other hand, if they do not accept the deal, it's likely they'll loose a lot of support among the population. Also, December is a long time away, and not much better than the default option of elections in Mars.
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Max White

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #621 on: February 21, 2014, 04:44:05 am »

I heard there was an amnesty deal already on the table... Or did that get scrapped?

olemars

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #622 on: February 21, 2014, 04:56:08 am »

Parliament voted for that last night I think, but it's technically out of their jurisdiction and needs presidential approval.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #623 on: February 21, 2014, 04:57:48 am »

Can't say about Right Sector but I will consider any deal that doesn't include full and immediate removal of Yanukovitch from power as a treason of the parliamentary opposition
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #624 on: February 21, 2014, 05:01:27 am »

who do you propose replaces him

i mean, you are going to have elections afterwards, but with high rank politicians effectively bailing left and right & the nature of your system simply demanding a president, who should become one in the pre-election period
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #625 on: February 21, 2014, 05:08:34 am »

Quote
who do you propose replaces him

Parliament. Just vote to temporary take all his power away. Yes it's anti-constitutional , especially with simple and not 2\3 majority but it is not the time play this games. This is a revolution

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olemars

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #626 on: February 21, 2014, 05:13:01 am »

If they replace the constitution with the 2004 edition, which powers would he lose and which would he keep?
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #627 on: February 21, 2014, 05:18:29 am »

Apart from some minor stuff the main difference is that in 1996 variant cabinet of ministers is appointed by president and in 2004 variant cabinet of ministers is appointed by parliament

Still president is supreme commander of armed forces, the only thing that matters in situation like this
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #628 on: February 21, 2014, 05:29:04 am »

...isn't that particular thing a standard though? obama is the supreme commander of the us armed forces for instance but normally stuff is being led by generals
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« Reply #629 on: February 21, 2014, 05:59:20 am »

Quote from: U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt
“Our position is the President Yankukovych needs to lead his country into a new future, and he needs to do so through the vehicle of a new government, change to the constitution and the political order.”
Oh.... Great... I am wondering what national interests Yanukovitch promised to give up, that 200+ deaths are forgiven?
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
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