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[Comrade P.]

Russia demands 11 billion USD from Ukraine since Ukraine can no longer uphold their end of the deal for the lease on Sevastopol. Predictable, but still a shitty thing to do.

Sorry to say, but under that link is a report of demand of unpaid 11 billion for all the gas they bought. Found no word about Sevastopol there.

[olemars]

The article as it reads to me:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday Ukraine should pay back $11 billion to Russia because an agreement under which Russia provided cheap gas would cease to be valid, RIA news agency reported.

He said the Kharkiv agreements under which Russia was to provide the cheap gas in return for the lease of the Sevastopol naval base in Crimea were "subject to denunciation", giving Russia a legal right to sue for money back from Ukraine.

Reuters adds the following:

In addition, he said that Ukraine owes Russia $3 billion for a recent loan in the form of Russian purchase of Eurobonds, and that around $2 billion is owed to Gazprom, Russia's state-controlled gas concern.

[andrea]

well, considering ukraine can no longer upheld its end of the deal ( nor russia needs ukraine to), it is reasonable to end the cheap gas treaty, going back to normal sale prices.

But wouldn't such an treaty only become void after crimea became independent? there shouldn't be any reason to make ukraine pay retroactively.
Or did they buy 11b worth of gas in the last 5 days?

[Grek]

The deal being referenced would be the Kharkiv Accords, wherein Russia leases a naval base in Sevastopol from Ukraine and pays for the lease by giving Ukraine cheaper prices on natural gas from Gazprom, the Russian's government-owned natural gas company. Since Russia has just annexed Sevastopol (which is in Crimea), Russia is now saying that the lease is void (can't lease what you no longer own) and that Ukraine should pay back Russia back for the difference in prices. This makes sense because the Kharkiv Accords are an extension of the Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet which had already let Russia lease the base until 2017. Essentially, Russia is demanding to be paid back for natural gas that Ukraine has bought from 2010 (when the Kharkiv Accords were signed) to today.

Obviously, Ukraine isn't going to agree to that, but Russia gets to use it as a bargaining chip next time they make a natural gas deal.

[Comrade P.]

The deal being referenced would be the Kharkiv Accords, wherein Russia leases a naval base in Sevastopol from Ukraine and pays for the lease by giving Ukraine cheaper prices on natural gas from Gazprom, the Russian's government-owned natural gas company. Since Russia has just annexed Sevastopol (which is in Crimea), Russia is now saying that the lease is void (can't lease what you no longer own) and that Ukraine should pay back Russia back for the difference in prices. Obviously, Ukraine isn't going to agree to that, but Russia gets to use it as a bargaining chip next time they make a natural gas deal.

What this guy says. Sorry, misread about Sevastopol in linked article myself, but what Grek says is pretty nice explanation.

[andrea]

but why would this apply retroactively? between 2010 and now, ukraine held  its end of the deal.
Although I guess it depends on the exact terms of the agreement.

[kaian-a-coel]

As contested as crimea independence/being russian is, I get that the russian void the treaty. But making ukraine pay retroactively is not only dickish, it's also (probably) just plain illegal. That's not how discounts work!

[Grek]

but why would this apply retroactively? between 2010 and now, ukraine held  its end of the deal.
Although I guess it depends on the exact terms of the agreement.

The Kharkiv Accords are an extension of the Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet which had already let Russia lease the base until 2017. Essentially, Russia is demanding to be paid back for natural gas that Ukraine has bought from 2010 (when the Kharkiv Accords were signed) to today.

I've edited my prior post to reflect this fact.

[Comrade P.]

Who needs West? Russia has other neighbors.

[Sheb]

Yeah, but Russia to me still sees itself as a European countries. As Owlbread said before, "Central russia" is around Moscow on the westernmost edge of Russia, not around Novosibirsk. Those neighbors are a fucking long way away.

I find this map makes the point nicely. Russia may stretch all the way to the pacific, but Russians are mostly Europeans.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Comrade P.]

Yeah, but Russia to me still sees itself as a European countries. As Owlbread said before, "Central russia" is around Moscow on the westernmost edge of Russia, not around Novosibirsk. Those neighbors are a fucking long way away.

The main thing about Russia - it is frecking big. So, opinion of european-part Russians is often different from Asian part Russians. I have no exact demographic data to say which population is bigger. You see, though the density is lower, sizes are bigger.
I do not know what people beyond Ural think about such partnership, for example. Though for some of them China is at and and Moscow is as distant as hell.

[Sheb]

The Urals, Siberian and Far Eastern federal districts have only 38 millions people between them.

[Comrade P.]

The Urals, Siberian and Far Eastern federal districts have only 38 millions people between them.

Well, yes, they are not the majority. But a very considerable part of population, claiming a lot of them are factory workers, miners, etc. - men on whom economy actually depends.

[Sheb]

Right, and more significantly I guess a lot of the oil actually come from over there.

[gogis]

Right, and more significantly I guess a lot of the oil actually come from over there.

Exactly, rich resources out there.
These regions is underdeveloped not because people lean to be closer to Europe, but because costs of living and construction costs in "vechnaya merzlota" is ridiculously high. You can read it up if you interested. Also, if "leaning to the east" is ever going to happen, it's not going to be bad for russia, quite opposite. Some healthy decentralization and economical boost to eastern regions is not a bad thing. Not at all. And suprisingly, nothing good happening for EU in this case.