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[gogis]

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

You need to try and find full transcript of leaked Nuland Pyatt conversation. I can't help you here. The fact of connection between Klitchko and US officials is clear for me, must be not clear for you, but hey, thats a nature of interpretation. Again, if I find that this is troubling, because I am absolutely apolitical person. And now I am worried of shenanigans. I mean really I start believing in West against Russia agenda which I always find amusing before.

You are aware that US and EU diplomats were trying to mediate in the Ukraine crisis? The disagreement was about who should be supported as a potential new Prime Minister, as part of a compromise between Yanukovych and the opposition. The EU wanted Klitchko, the US wanted Yatsenyuk.
If you're refering to something else, here is a transcript.

Yup, thats is transcript I was talking about. I am the one who find it's troubling USA is even involved here? I mean, look at the globe

[Askot Bokbondeler]

And Putin wanted yanukovich. The difference is the west didn't send in the army

[Guardian G.I.]

A lot of Western politicians' posturings and views on Russia's policies remind me of this.
Unfortunately, General Buck Turgidson's remarks in Dr. Strangelove are based on a lot of real American generals' war plans during the entire Cold War. The existence of them and folks like Zbigniew Brzezinski keep the distrust between Russia and the West strong. If you were a Russian leader, you definitely wouldn't trust a country that seriously plans to launch a 'pre-emptive' nuclear attack against you just because they think that you pose a threat to them.

[XXSockXX]

Yup, thats is transcript I was talking about. I am the one who find it's troubling USA is even involved here? I mean, look at the globe

The foreign diplomats were involved to stop the two sides from starting to kill each other. That's...pretty normal. I'm tempted to make a cynical comment, but you really seem not to know.

A lot of Western politicians' posturings and views on Russia's policies remind me of this.
Unfortunately, General Buck Turgidson's remarks in Dr. Strangelove are based on a lot of real American generals' war plans during the entire Cold War. The existence of them and folks like Zbigniew Brzezinski keep the distrust between Russia and the West strong. If you were a Russian leader, you definitely wouldn't trust a country that seriously plans to launch a 'pre-emptive' nuclear attack against you just because they think that you pose a threat to them.

Still these days it's mostly Russia who has not realized the Cold War is over. I mean, Russia brought the army.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I am the one who find it's troubling USA is even involved here?

I think yes. Because even I, Ukrainian nationalist (nationalists aren't very happy about foreign influence, you know?) understand that in this global world  any country influences every country. USA, every EU country, Russia, China and many others have it's own interests in Ukraine and the whole foreign relations is defending those interests

But there are acceptable and unacceptable ways to influence some country

[Knit tie]

http://nebesnasotnya.com.ua/ru


Here's a memorial site to all who died in the uprising.

[Helgoland]

Helgoland, is you old man doing okay? I always feel sorry for the poor bastards who had to be a part of one of the most horrible regimes in history just because the were born in the wrong place.

He's perfectly all right, no need to worry His wife was very demented, but she died around Christmas - which is a pity; but ever since then he's really been blooming again.

Could we get a poll on the make-up of the thread participants? Russians/Ukrainians/Eastern Europeans/Germans/Other Europeans/Americans/misc.? I'd really like to know the proportions.

[Sheb]

Ukrainian-Russian Tensions Dividing U.S. Citizens Along Ignorant, Apathetic Lines

“The very real threat of a Russia-Ukraine war has completely polarized the general public, pitting two deeply entrenched blocs against one another: those who have absolutely no clue what they’re talking about and those who couldn’t care less,” said Pew spokesman Andrew Collins

[gogis]

The foreign diplomats were involved to stop the two sides from starting to kill each other. That's...pretty normal. I'm tempted to make a cynical comment, but you really seem not to know.

You can't be serious here or you just blatantly ignorant. Russians and Ukrainians is not ever ever like muslim/jews angry-angry. Actually saying "starting to kill each other" is just shows how unaware you are. Out of my 30+ coworkers I have 4 ukrainians (not just bloodline, effectively, right now, Ukrainian citizens). I am going to lunch with some of them just tomorrow. There is not going to be bloodshed. Separate country? Anti russian goverment? Nothing new. Fine. Tension for ages. Racial jokes, all the time.  But what you just said? Thats such an ignorance...

[Sheb]

The two sides are not Russians and Ukrainians, they were Party of Regions and protesters.

[gogis]

I am the one who find it's troubling USA is even involved here?

I think yes. Because even I, Ukrainian nationalist (nationalists aren't very happy about foreign influence, you know?) understand that in this global world  any country influences every country. USA, every EU country, Russia, China and many others have it's own interests in Ukraine and the whole foreign relations is defending those interests

But there are acceptable and unacceptable ways to influence some country

It's funny, because, I am, Earth citizen, hugely apolitical globalist thinks that there should be none ever interests beside interests for prosperity of our home planet Earth. Thank you. We going to discuss galaxy interests after our technology applies.
Stop dividing.

[gogis]

I am stupid, stupid, I said no commenting here. Idiot

[Sheb]

Why not? We're just having a friendly discussion.

[XXSockXX]

The foreign diplomats were involved to stop the two sides from starting to kill each other. That's...pretty normal. I'm tempted to make a cynical comment, but you really seem not to know.

You can't be serious here or you just blatantly ignorant. Russians and Ukrainians is not ever ever like muslim/jews angry-angry. Actually saying "starting to kill each other" is just shows how unaware you are. Out of my 30+ coworkers I have 4 ukrainians (not just bloodline, effectively, right now, Ukrainian citizens). I am going to lunch with some of them just tomorrow. There is not going to be bloodshed. Separate country? Anti russian goverment? Nothing new. Fine. Tension for ages. Racial jokes, all the time.  But what you just said? Thats such an ignorance...

You were talking about the Nuland phone call, about foreign diplomats in Ukraine, when Yanukovych was still in power, threatened to use violence against the protesters and ultimately did, which killed up to 100 people. That was what the diplomats tried to prevent, that was what foreign involvement was about at that time.
It was not about Russians and Ukrainians at all, that is a different issue now. Not sure if you don't understand me or are deliberately mishearing or mixing up things.

[GlyphGryph]

Gogis... I'm just, sort of getting the feeling that either your English is not so good, or you are getting very emotional. Either way, you are communicating really poorly - it is very hard to understand what you are saying, and you don't seem to be understanding what others are saying. Please, slow down, chill a little bit, and put some more time into thinking about how to say what you want to say and interpreting responses.

I know it's a fast-moving thread, and it's tempting to just bang something out, but we'll be a lot better off if we're actually talking with each other instead of past each other.

Russia and Europe and US were involved for the same exact reason.

I can accept that you think none of them should have been involved, since they were all foreign countries and Ukraine should handle it's own problems (if that's what you believe?), but that isn't what happened.

Or do you think Russia should have been involved, but not Europe or the USA? And if so, why?