Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[artemonster]

Hi All,

you all know, there are plenty alternatives to DF (Towns, Gnomoria, RimWorld, TimberAndStone, etc.), which are trying to have a piece of this big "complex-manager-god-sim"-pie. But I think all their efforts are totally useless, because they will just run out of money eventually (buy-once model will not work for such long-development projects) and will never reach depth and complexy of DF.

On the other hand, the current model of DF development is also unsatisfying. Waiting the eternity between the releases, only just to find out that Toady fixed some bugs or added some feature, which is TOO F#CKING DEEP, and most likely, you will never know about it. Most of the time I question his ability to prioritize things. Also, waiting another 20 years is not an option.

You can all see how good community-made things can be (stonesense, DFhack, dwarf therapist) and, especially, masterwork mod. I think that community-driven project with a good managment can achieve what is done in DF in about a year or so. And reach beyond, into eternal complexity and immersive experience.

We can start the project, assign managers, start the initial coding (please do not suggest using goblinscamp codebase, it is nothing). The idea is to create a comprehensive engine for such DF-like games, where mechanics are adjustable and good rendering engine with GUI capabilities. One group can focus on technicalities (pathfinding, task prioritizing, GUI, etc), and other (others) on content - different races (humans, gnomes, orcs, whatever, just like in masterwork), graphics, sounds. The engine can be used to create even a completely different setting, like in space or whatever.
Once some initial playable stage is achieved (I'd say something on goblin-camp level), we launch a funding campaign and distribute the money between main contributors and project managers slowly in time. Then, try to establish a donation model to continue development.

Your ideas? What do you think?

[miauw62]

This should be in Creative Projects, not here.

You shouldn't question Toady's ability to prioritize, considering that the features released right now are, indeed, incredibly deep but they also affect gameplay quite fundamentally. Toady is an experienced programmer and it took him 13 years to get this far. One could say "surely it would take 13 people just one year!", but most of these features rely on others to function well, and it's gonna be heard to find 13 dedicated coders.

Furthermore, a lot of people are not going to be happy doing all the grunt work while an entirely different group gets all the credits for making fun stuff.

Also, you're an escaped lunatic trying to start up a project that he would probably make money with that is a clone of the game that is giving Toady the bread on his plate. So yeah.

Personally I also think that going into an open-source project with the intent of making a kickstarter for it is a bit, well, wrong. (CataDDA is different for obvious reasons)

[artemonster]

1. Yeah, I thought of this topic position, but I found that other games may be ok as well. If no, then modarators should move it
2. I agree, that it was a little bit harsh to say something like that about ToadyOne, but still, the demands of the community (people like me, who just can't wait) are completely ignored and discarded, which is sad.
Moreover, there is a possibility to have more than 13 people.
And the money from the funding campaign will go to the people, who did the grunt work.
3. "Also, you're an escaped lunatic trying to start up a project that he would probably make money with that is a clone of the game that is giving Toady the bread on his plate. So yeah." So yeah, what?
4. about open-source and funding: again, somebody needs to do the initial work, and they wont do it for free.

[Darkmere]

Ah, here's my bog standard answer to these.

"Someone can do the base work.". Cool. That someone is you. The internet is overflowing with idea men. Ideas are so cheap I just had one right now. Someone needs to DO it. Once you have something to actually show off, a product to "sell" just to get people interested enough to be on board, then come back.

At the very absolute least you're going to need an extensive design document and some infrastructure somewhere for people to come in and check out. If you expect more than bare minimum free time work, you need to also offer a paycheck FIRST.

Either way, the onus here is on you to actually get the ball rolling.

[artemonster]

You are just absolutely right about everything. But you've missed the point: The idea of this topic is to find out whether or not there are people that want to see this idea living, want to help or have something to say.

Ah, here's my bog standard answer to these.

"Someone can do the base work.". Cool. That someone is you. The internet is overflowing with idea men. Ideas are so cheap I just had one right now. Someone needs to DO it. Once you have something to actually show off, a product to "sell" just to get people interested enough to be on board, then come back.

At the very absolute least you're going to need an extensive design document and some infrastructure somewhere for people to come in and check out. If you expect more than bare minimum free time work, you need to also offer a paycheck FIRST.

Either way, the onus here is on you to actually get the ball rolling.

[Meta]

I think it's a bad idea.

[artemonster]

Elaborate, please.

I think it's a bad idea.

[sebcool]

1. Yeah, I thought of this topic position, but I found that other games may be ok as well. If no, then modarators should move it

You are just absolutely right about everything. But you've missed the point: The idea of this topic is to find out whether or not there are people that want to see this idea living, want to help or have something to say.

Well, better get this topic moved. Other Games is for when you actually have something to show, and from what I can tell, you don't even have a prototype. You've shown us nothing to prove that you even have coding experience, because if you think you can just start an open-source project and expect everyone else to do the work, you're wrong.

2. I agree, that it was a little bit harsh to say something like that about ToadyOne, but still, the demands of the community (people like me, who just can't wait) are completely ignored and discarded, which is sad.
Moreover, there is a possibility to have more than 13 people.
And the money from the funding campaign will go to the people, who did the grunt work.

It is possible to get more than 13 coders, but not from here. That's pretty much all of our experienced modders, if not more, and most of those have been working with, well, the moddable part of the game, not the actual guts of the game. I doubt any of them would actually join this project, especially not when it's managed by someone with no apparent coding experience, and who hasn't even bothered to actually post anything on the forums before telling about his idea to make a clone of DF.

3. "Also, you're an escaped lunatic trying to start up a project that he would probably make money with that is a clone of the game that is giving Toady the bread on his plate. So yeah." So yeah, what?

A: The fact that you haven't posted on this forum makes you untrustworthy as hell. B: The fact that you're planning to make money off this free game is not something we approve of. And C: You're literally planning to steal the livelihood of the actual maker of this game, which is both amoral and would lead to this forum closing down, leaving the community extremely pissed off.

The idea of this topic is to find out whether or not there are people that want to see this idea living, want to help or have something to say.

And this is what we have said: We have little interest in seeing this idea living, we don't want to help, and you have shown us nothing to convince us that you are something other than a lazy ideas man or a troll. Your plan is both amoral and stupid, since if you have spent any time here, you would know that this community can get extremely hostile against projects that have copied less from DF than you plan to do. This shit is major league flamebait, and the fact that you deliberately posted it on Other Games just makes it even more blatant trolling.

So yeah, we have lots to say. Lots.

Elaborate, please.

I think it's a bad idea.

Because in a minute, this topic is gonna be flamed to hell. Unless Toady gets to it first and locks it.
Seriously, I'm counting down.

[Werdna]

Highly recommend you take a coding class, so you can get a better grasp between the stark differences between the effort, knowledge, and time required to code a game versus modding a game.

[sebcool]

Highly recommend you take a coding class, so you can get a better grasp between the stark differences between the effort and knowledge required to code a game versus modding a game.

+1

Also recommend you figure out what Open-Source means, because it definitely does not involve managers. Or money. Or paying people.

[Robsoie]

Yes, any "i want to make a game" project that does not feature at least one competent enough coder is going nowhere.

[miauw62]

We have plenty of coders, but most of them have their own projects and the languages they use differ a lot.

The needs of the community aren't ignored at all, and besides, how would an escaped lunatic know? Big things take a very long time to implement, and anyone that's been here for a while understand the general development cycle: one huge update that takes a long time to make, followed by a lot of minor releases. Most of the things he implements have a great effect on the game too, they're not useless nor unnoticable. Aproximately every month Toady makes a massive reply to FotF.

[artemonster]

Oh well, I really had no idea about "butthurtness" of this community then. Just close this topic, and get past it, but before that, here are some things to clarify:
0. I am not a troll, and I was serious about the idea.
1. If you do not adapt to the needs of the community, you will die. Toady is not adapting. He is arrogant and stubborn, and I think there is nothing amoral in making a competing and living product, which will give much more than he is giving.
2. I do not want to steal "all the money" and all the ideas. You got the wrong idea. Just provide alternative and better experience. I will gladly invenst my time in management and coding (oh yeah, I can code, and do it for my living , and big portion of my capitals.

It is unfortunate, that this situation turned up this way. I really think I was not offensive with my ideas.
Good luck waiting another 20 years for some feature like "physics of metal shovels penetrating clay, soil and mud"

[nenjin]

It has nothing to do with butthurtdeness. People here know what they're talking about, because they program, and your hubris is pretty galling considering you don't know thing one about what you're describing.

Put another way, there's about one of you every month.

[thvaz]

 I don't know a single coder (and I know many) that would agree with the possibility of DF being cloned in under a year even by a professional team, what to say of a team of volunteers.

You are the dumbest ammoral asshole to ever post here.