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[Meph]

I like it, I wanted to write something like this with raws-only but never found the time.

A skulking civ with triggers set to 5 (highest, so they appear late in the game) that affects a single dwarf, who uses party triggers to start an interaction that spawns shades in the dining area. You know, shade thief arrives, possesses dwarf, next time dwarf parties, he opens a portal to the shade-realm, spawns differently sized shade armies.

Same with Liches, which spawn skeletons and undeads. And demons. And priests/temples can be used to save those possessed units before they summon the attack. A bit like the Cult of the Carp god, but more like a siege/attack, less horror story.

That was part of my inner-threats idea. Obviously your idea is nicer, because its later, and you can control the progress better by using dfhack. Spawning units with AI (invaders) with equipment would already be an immense improvement. People can write custom attacks without having entities that muck up worldgen.

If you want/need any help with raws or ideas for races or events, just let me know. I would love to help.

[Roses]

I had another idea for a "living world" type advancement. If I recall correctly there was a script floating around that allowed you to edit what animals and plants a specific race had access too (both to trade and to invade with). You could allow your civilizations to increase in strength over the course of years by giving them access to bigger and more powerful creatures as the game progresses. If something similar were possible with metals as well (don't know if it is) then you could give them a chance for every year you play for them to discover a new metal (or better weapons, or anything else that is configurable like creatures).

Thoughts?

[Meph]

Possible. the script is done by Urist Da Vinci, still for r3. Not sure if it works with current r5. It would also allow to add better weapons, materials and pets to invaders.

[Roses]

Well if we can get it to work it means that non-player civilizations will be able to have their own tech trees, and will be able to respond to what you do in game.

Trade with them a bunch? They develop better trade goods and economic materials.
Attack them? They develop better weapons and war materials.
Teach them how to make golems or other Dwarven things? They will now trade them with you or attack you with them.

I think it could be pretty cool.

[Meph]

Things like "sell dwarven golem tech to humans" and humans will be able to trade golems the next time they are around?

[Roses]

Yep, thats my plan. The question I have been working with so far, is how I should implement this stuff. I can fairly easily (not really easily but comparatively so) create a system just for my mod, but I would like to make it more modular and accessible for others to include in their mods.

My current thinking is to start out with a basic "level" system for entities. You would create a raw file (much like the one I have for class levels) that specifies the new creatures/metals/items/whatever the entity gets at each level. Then you specify how the entity levels up (e.g. each year it has a chance to level up, each time it sieges you it levels up, each time it trades with you it levels up, etc...). This will allow for general progression of entities and will mean that the modder has to do very little to no work with DFHack to experience these benefits.

The next step is how to add in non-general progression (e.g. "sell dwarven golem tech to humans" or "humans steal dwarven golem tech"). The simplest way for me would just be create a couple example for my mod, and then other people can write the necessary DFHack scripts. Another solution might be to have another raw file that specifies reaction names and the change that takes effect, and then have the effects pre-programed so that again the modder doesn't need to touch DFHack. I will have to continue to think about the possibilities.

Lastly are event triggers, these I don't see an easy way around and will most likely need each modder to write their own DFHack versions. But I will think about these more. To start I am hoping to figure out the first two steps.



Now on to a different note, the Class System:

I am not very happy with the experience system. It does a descent job for straight combat, but as you add interactions and the like in it starts to get worse and worse (ran a test with a creature who almost only used interactons and he got only 13 of 70 kills). I was hoping to help alleviate this a bit by adding experience into interaction usage, but I can't think of a particularly elegant way to do that. I did notice that onInteraction(attackVerb, defendVerb, attackerId, defenderId, attackReportId, defendReportId) is included in the new DFHack, so maybe it will be possible for me to use that to track interaction usage and add experience somehow. (Right now the easiest way would probably be to tie interaction experience into my wrapper.lua script, but I don't want to make modders rely on using that script)

So for now I am going to add a script that allows for experience gain through reactions (or any of the other *-trigger scripts really), with the knowledge that the script will most likely also be used in giving experience from interactions (I suppose I could just use modtools/interaction-trigger and tie the experience in that way...)

[Putnam]

Can classes require other classes to be changed to, but not auto-upgrade?

[Roses]

Can classes require other classes to be changed to, but not auto-upgrade?

What do you mean?

You can currently specify [REQUIRMENT_CLASS:CLASS_ID_HERE:CLASS_LEVEL_HERE] and it will require you to have been or currently are that class at that level. You can have as many of these as you want, so for instance;

Code: [Select]

[CLASS:PALADIN]
[REQUIREMENT_CLASS:KNIGHT:2]
[REQUIREMENT_CLASS:PRIEST:1]would mean that you need to be a level 2 knight and a level 1 priest.

Or do you mean something else?

EDIT: So here is what I have as a basis so far for civilizations progressing

Code: [Select]

[CIVILIZATION:HUMAN]
 [NAME:humans of the north]
 [ENTITY:PLAINS]
 [LEVEL_METHOD:YEARLY:25]
 [LEVELS:5]
 [LEVEL:0]
  [L_NAME:started in the stone age]
  [L_REMOVE:CREATURE:ALL]
  [L_REMOVE:INORGANIC:ALL]
  [L_REMOVE:ITEM:ALL]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
 [LEVEL:1]
  [L_NAME:entered the bronze age]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
 [LEVEL:2]
  [L_NAME:entered the iron age]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
  [L_REMOVE:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
 [LEVEL:3]
  [L_NAME:fallen into the dark ages]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
  [L_REMOVE:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
 [LEVEL:4]
  [L_NAME:entered the age of enlightenment]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
  [L_REMOVE:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
 [LEVEL:5]
  [L_NAME:started an industrial revolution]
  [L_ADD:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:CREATURE:CREATURE_ID:CASTE_ID]
  [L_ADD:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_REMOVE:INORGANIC:INORGANIC_ID]
  [L_ADD:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]
  [L_REMOVE:ITEM:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUBTYPE]The names are only used for announcements in game. Most of the other tokens are pretty straight forward I would say. The LEVEL_METHOD and currently be SEASONAL, BIYEARLY, and YEARLY, with the number representing the percent chance the level up occurs at that time. This [LEVEL_METHOD:YEARLY:25] means that there is a 25% chance each year that the entity moves to the next level. If there is a LEVEL:0 then it will be run when the game starts. Announcements are currently in the form "the humans of the north have started in the stone age", "the humans of the north have entered the bronze age", etc...

Currently my script is working and parsing everything correctly, but I need to look at Urist Da Vinci's script to actually run tests and see if it behaves like it does in my head. I am also thinking about a way to add extra abilities to the levels, for instance, during the above age of enlightenment maybe some humans have learned some magic, right now the easiest way to go about that would just be to create a secondary human creature and add it to the list of creatures the humans bring with them on sieges. Or possible give them access to a new item "mage staff" and use itemSyndrome (or the new item-trigger) to give them the abilities.

I would also like to add different LEVEL_METHODS (besides just time based) so that you can have them level up via trade/attacking/stealing/randomly/anything else I can think of. But for now I am going to stick with time based leveling and expand on that when needed.

EDIT2: I have done some work on the experience system. There is no change in the compatability so nothing needs to be changed, but in the new version (after I test it and upload) you will be able to specify several new things

• Spells can now have a "cost" to learn. Basically the game will track a third category of experience, which will be your total (or class, haven't decided yet) experience minus whatever the cost of the spells you have learned. If you don't have enough of this experience to learn the spell, you won't be able to. The corresponding tag in the classes.txt under the SPELL is [S_COST:#]. It will default to 0, so if you don't add this tag in it will work exactly like it does now.
• Spells now have a corresponding experience gain. This will also go under the SPELL and will be [S_EXP_GAIN:#]. To make the experience gain work you will need to re-run the python script for classes and add the corresponding DFHack onLoad.init inputs it generates. Again the default is set to 0, so if you don't add this tag it will work how it does now.
• Experience can now be gained in a radius around the unit that is supposed to get the experience (for kills only). So that if you have 10 Dwarves hammering away at a Dragon, it won't just be the one that gets the killing blow that gets the experience. For this change you will, unfortunately, need to modify the DFHack scripts directly (only the base/classes.lua) to specify the radius you want experience to be earned over. By default it is set to -1, which means only the unit that makes the kill will get the experience (how it is now). I also need to decide how to split the experience, should it be divided evenly? weighted to the one who made the kill? fully given to all? something in between?

Hopefully these changes will let experience gains feel less broken, and allow "healer" and "support" units to not get left behind in levels.

[Nopenope]

Edit: wrong thead, disregard thsi.

[Roses]

Well I was hoping to get the updated Class system and a test Civilization system released before I had to go on travel, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. If I can update while traveling I will, otherwise the updates will have to wait for a couple weeks. Sorry.

EDIT: Meph, do you happen to have a version of Urist Da Vinci's script for adding creatures and stuff. I thought I did, but was unable to locate it, and I don't remember what thread that was mentioned in.

[Roses]

Had some time on a delayed flight and got some DF stuff done.

So I tested the new "Civilizations" scripts with this code by Urist Da Vinci

Code: [Select]

local function insertPet(entity,creature,caste)
local exists=false
for k,v in pairs(df.global.world.entities.all) do
--ENTITY TYPES
--Civilization 0
--SiteGovernment 1
--VesselCrew 2
--MigratingGroup 3
--NomadicGroup 4
--Religion 5
--MilitaryUnit 6
--Outcast 7
if v.type==0 and v.entity_raw.code==entity then --exclude bandits
--print(k)
--printall(v.resources.animals)
for kk,vv in pairs(v.resources.animals.minion_races) do
--print(kk,vv,v.resources.animals.minion_castes[kk])
local checkrace = df.creature_raw.find(vv)
local checkcaste = checkrace.caste[v.resources.animals.minion_castes[kk]]
--print(checkrace.creature_id, checkcaste.caste_id)
if checkrace.creature_id == creature and checkcaste.caste_id == caste then exists=true end
end
if exists==true then
print("ERROR- civilization ",entity," has creature ", creature, caste)
else
--the civ doesn't have the creature as a pet
--add the creature as a pet
local racenum=-1
local castenum=-1
for kk,vv in pairs(df.global.world.raws.creatures.all) do
--print(vv.creature_id)
if vv.creature_id==creature then
racenum=kk
--print(kk)
--printall(vv.caste)
for kkk,vvv in pairs(vv.caste) do
--print(vvv.caste_id)
if vvv.caste_id==caste then castenum=kkk end
end
break
end
end
if racenum > -1 and castenum > -1 then
--print("success!!")
--print(v)
v.resources.animals.minion_races:insert('#',racenum)
v.resources.animals.minion_castes:insert('#',castenum)
print("Inserted ", creature, caste, " in civ ",k, entity)
else
print(creature, caste, " not found in raws")
end
end
end
exists=false
end
end
And it does appear to work well, my test that I artificially leveled humans for had the animals correctly added (although I did not wait for an invasion or trader to come to see if they actually had the new creatures). The next step is modifying the above code for items and such, should be simple enough. They df-structures for entities has the following available to modify

Code: [Select]

        <compound name='resources'>
            <stl-vector name='digger_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_weaponst'/>
            <stl-vector name='weapon_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_weaponst'/>
            <stl-vector name='training_weapon_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_weaponst'/>
            <stl-vector name='armor_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_armorst'/>
            <stl-vector name='ammo_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_ammost'/>
            <stl-vector name='helm_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_helmst'/>
            <stl-vector name='gloves_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_glovesst'/>
            <stl-vector name='shoes_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_shoesst'/>
            <stl-vector name='pants_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_pantsst'/>
            <stl-vector name='shield_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_shieldst'/>
            <stl-vector name='trapcomp_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_trapcompst'/>
            <stl-vector name='toy_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_toyst'/>
            <stl-vector name='instrument_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_instrumentst'/>
            <stl-vector name='siegeammo_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_siegeammost'/>
            <stl-vector name='tool_type' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='itemdef_toolst'/>

            <compound name='metal'>
                <compound name='pick' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='weapon' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='ranged' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='ammo' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='ammo2' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='maybe intended for siege ammo'/>
                <compound name='armor' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='also instruments, toys, and tools'/>
                <compound name='anvil' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            </compound>

            <compound name='organic'>
                <compound name='leather' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='fiber' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='silk' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='wool' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='wood' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            </compound>

            <stl-vector name='metals' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='inorganic_raw' comment='bars'/>
            <stl-vector name='stones' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='inorganic_raw' comment='boulders and blocks'/>
            <stl-vector name='gems' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='inorganic_raw' comment='small and large cut'/>

            <compound name='refuse'>
                <compound name='bone' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='shell' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='pearl' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='ivory' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='horn' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            </compound>

            <compound name='misc_mat'>
                <compound name='others' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='amber and coral'/>
                <compound name='glass' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='sand' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='clay' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='crafts' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='glass_unused' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='used for vial extracts on embark'/>
                <compound name='barrels' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='also buckets, splints, and crutches'/>
                <compound name='flasks' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='quivers' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='backpacks' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='cages' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='wood2' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='v0.34.01'/>
                <compound name='rock_metal' type-name='material_vec_ref' comment='v0.34.01'/>
                <compound name='booze' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='cheese' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='powders' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='extracts' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
                <compound name='meat' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            </compound>

            <stl-vector name='fish_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
            <stl-vector name='fish_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.fish_races[$._key]'/>

            <stl-vector name='egg_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
            <stl-vector name='egg_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.egg_races[$._key]'/>

            <compound name='plants' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            <compound name='seeds' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>

            <compound name='wood_products' comment='lye, charcoal, potash, pearlash, and coke'>
                <stl-vector name='item_type'>
                    <enum base-type='int16_t' type-name='item_type'/>
                </stl-vector>
                <stl-vector type-name='int16_t' name='item_subtype'/>
                <compound name='material' type-name='material_vec_ref'/>
            </compound>

            <compound name='animals'>
                <stl-vector name='pet_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='wagon_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='pack_animal_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='wagon_puller_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='mount_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='minion_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>
                <stl-vector name='exotic_pet_races' type-name='int32_t' ref-target='creature_raw'/>

                <stl-vector name='pet_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.pet_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='wagon_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.wagon_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='pack_animal_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.pack_animal_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='wagon_puller_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.wagon_puller_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='mount_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.mount_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='minion_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.minion_races[$._key]'/>
                <stl-vector name='exotic_pet_castes' type-name='int16_t' ref-target='caste_raw' aux-value='$$._parent.unk728_races[$._key]'/>
            </compound>So I am pretty sure I will allow all of the above things to be modified in these scripts.

EDIT: Class system experience update is still a little bit away. I have been distracted by this Civilization system.

[Roses]

Crazy idea popped into my head on a flight today. What about making a journal? It could function outside of DF (i.e. not take up the screen) and read a file that is written to from inside DF (e.g. Send scouts to explore local cavern, scouts come back, journal is updated with new information or Listen to rumors in tavern, journal is updated with new information). Not sure how exactly it would work, but it would be really nice from a Lore perspective and allow a lot more information to be conveyed to the players, without the limits of funky item descriptions and announcements. Thoughts?

[Deon]

HOLY HELL IT'S UPDATED! Now I just need to include it in Wanderer mod. Everyone will be so happy! Thank you bro.

P.S. Oh wait it's for R5 which is still for the old version... I was overhyped for a moment .

[Roses]

Yeah, still R5, was going to wait for a stable release of DFHack for the .40.X versions, but it looks like that has happened (I think? right?) so I should be able to port them over. I'm not entirely sure any of them will be any different, but we shall see. The big difference is that all of the scripts now utilize the "new" method, which you can learn more about here. This means that the way you trigger the scripts will be different. Hopefully when I get back I will be able to create an indepth manual that will describe everything you need to know.

[Warmist]

Crazy idea popped into my head on a flight today. What about making a journal? It could function outside of DF (i.e. not take up the screen) and read a file that is written to from inside DF (e.g. Send scouts to explore local cavern, scouts come back, journal is updated with new information or Listen to rumors in tavern, journal is updated with new information). Not sure how exactly it would work, but it would be really nice from a Lore perspective and allow a lot more information to be conveyed to the players, without the limits of funky item descriptions and announcements. Thoughts?

That would be really cool. Though there is no real reason why it can't be (also) in df. Seeing the examples of e.g. falconne made guis everything can be done in very intuitive way.