Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Meph]

Ok, we currently have:

Non-Babysnatcher / Non-Thieves

• Dwarves
• Elves
• Humans
• Drow

Inactive, both Non-Babysnatcher / Non-Thief

• Dwarven Legion
• Gnomes

Babysnatcher

• Goblins
• Orcs
• Taiga Orcs
• Frost Giants
• Automatons
• Warlocks
• Evil Dwarves (Chaos)
• Evil Elves (Ashlander)
• Evil Humans (Bandits)
• Evil Drow (Deep)

Layer-Linked

• Troglodytes
• Antmen
• Gremlins

Skulking - More testing needed, but seems hostile to all

• Kobolds
• Cutebolds (Kobold Camp)

Non-Speak / Always Hostile to all

• All 15 Fortress Defense Races

Itemthief & Babysnatcher

• None

Itemthief - (if you dont count skulking kobolds)

• None

[Meph]

Best Setup would be: Cutebold/Kobolds merged. Taiga-Orcs/Orcs merged. Evil Races deleted.

Non-Babysnatcher / Non-Thieves - Civilized Races

• - Easy - (Humans)
• - Medium - (Elves)
• - Hard - (Dwarves)
• - Inactive - (Gnomes)

//they cant have a skulking version, because it needs thief or snatcher tags.Babysnatcher - Greenskins

• - Easy - (Snaga - Unarmed/Armored venomous amphibians)
• - Hard - (Orcs)
• - Inactive - (Ogres or Trolls - To keep the theme of Greenskins.)
• - Skulking - (Goblins)

Itemthief & Babysnatcher - Evil

• - Easy - (Warlocks)
• - Hard - (Frost Giants)
• - Inactive - (Illithids - Mind Control Long-Range Attacks through walls)
• - Skulking - (Shades - Sneakily teleport large armies with interactions)

Itemthief -  Semi-Wild/Nature-driven

• - Easy - (Centaurs - Quadruped Archers without armor)
• - Hard - (Werebeasts - Shapeshifter Civ)
• - Inactive - (Spiders - Web using invaders, trapavoid)
• - Skulking - (Kobolds)

Layer-Linked - Underground/Cavern

• Troglodytes - (Replace with mixed cavern race. Ogres, Trolls, Trogs)
• Antmen - (Keep them, add more castes)
• Gremlins - (Replace with Skaven/Ratmen (?))

Non-Speak / Always Hostile to all

• All 15 Fortress Defense Races
• As many as you like

[shadowclasper]

Automatons need to go into nonspeaker probably.

For Good: 1-Imperial Humans, 2-Elves, 3-Legion of Light, 4-Gnomes?
For Opportunists: 1-Dwarves, 2-FreeCity Humans?, 3-Mercenary Guilds, 4-Cutebolds?
For Minor Evil: 1-Goblins, 2-Orcs, 3-Corsair Alliance? Shadowbroker?, 4-???
For Major Evil: 1-Warlocks? 2-Frost Giants?, 3-Flesh Circus, 4-Deep Elves? (or reverse Frost Giants and Deep Elves? or move Frost Giants to nonspeaking perhaps?)

Kobolds are skulking but skulking seems to be a subset of the big four since you didn't have skulking turned on for the test item thief race right? So I'm not sure here? But yeah, this could potentially work really well.

[Meph]

If I understand skulking correctly it means this:

Civ will not send sieges/ambushes.
Civ will only send thieves or snatcher (depending on their thief/snatcher tags)
If enough times snatching/stealing is a success, will then send ambushes/sieges.

Civ will get caravans from allies.
Civ will NOT send caravans to allies.

So if you play skulking good kobolds, you will get kobold, dwarf, human and elf caravans. But If you play dwarves, you will only get dwarves, human and elf caravans, not kobolds.

[shadowclasper]

Gotcha...

Hmmm... how do we make Skulkers work then? In context. Some stuff will certainly change the way stuff works now. Like how Dwarves won't have access to the gnomish blue prints?

I know that emissary stuff lets you call sieges or caravans of every race, but is there a way to make race specific ones? so you can only call members of your own faction With an additional hard to get one that lets you call the skulkers?

edit: Putting gnomes as inactive a good idea when we have somebody developing gnomes to be played right now?

edit2: Also put automatons into the Nonspeaking races unless there's a reason they wouldn't be nonspeaking?

[Meph]

Skulking will just work like kobolds work atm. You can play them, if you play them you can trade, and if you play against them, they will steal/kidnap from you.

Race-specific embassy reactions are already in dwarf, orc, kobold and warlock mode. Thats no problem. Its only needed for the "inactive" civs, like gnomes. You cant call a skulking caravan.

[Meph]

This is the best I could come up with. Mostly because its 4 distinctive groups that have different themes (civilized vs. evil vs. wild vs. greenskins) and bonus points because every single group has 1 playable race.

You can play civilized dwarves.
You can play semi-wild kobolds.
You can play greenskin orcs.
You can play evil warlocks.

This means that all groups and all trade-partners are available in the end. And its even 1 race less then what we have at this moment. But of course it would require massive changes in all these expedition, raiding and thieving reactions, as well as souls/scalps. This is a lot of work.

Non-Babysnatcher / Non-Thieves - Civilized Races

• - Easy - (Humans)
• - Medium - (Elves)
• - Hard - (Dwarves)
• - Inactive - (Gnomes)

//they cant have a skulking version, because it needs thief or snatcher tags.Babysnatcher - Greenskins

• - Easy - (Goblins)
• - Hard - (Orcs)
• - Inactive - (Ogres or Trolls - To keep the theme of Greenskins.)
• - Skulking - (Naga - venomous amphibians make good infiltrators)

Itemthief & Babysnatcher - Evil

• - Easy - (Warlocks)
• - Hard - (Frost Giants)
• - Inactive - (Illithids - Mind Control Long-Range Attacks through walls)
• - Skulking - (Shades - Sneakily teleport large armies with interactions)

Itemthief -  Semi-Wild/Nature-driven

• - Easy - (Centaurs - Quadruped Archers without armor)
• - Hard - (Werebeasts - Shapeshifter Civ)
• - Inactive - (Spiders - Web using invaders, trapavoid)
• - Skulking - (Kobolds)

Layer-Linked - Underground/Cavern

• Troglodytes - (Replace with mixed cavern race. Ogres, Trolls, Trogs)
• Antmen - (Keep them, add more castes)
• Gremlins - (Replace with Skaven/Ratmen (?))

Non-Speak / Always Hostile to all

• All 15 Fortress Defense Races
• As many as you like

What do you think? I would delete Automatons, because I never really liked them and they dont feel right for most people. And when IndigoFenix finishes the Gnomes, we have a steampunk/tech race anyway. No need for robots.

EDIT: Forgot the drow.

[shadowclasper]

Automatons should go into nonspeaking I guess?

And is putting gnomes as inactive when there's somebody working on making them playable the right thing?

[IndigoFenix]

More stuff:

Skulking races are playable.  They are different in that they will attack if and only if they have a good number of successful thieves first.  Cave dwellers (who have a default site type as caves) will not show up on the map and are not playable, but otherwise behave normally.  It's good if you want hidden, surprise challenges (or allies).

Also just to throw in my two cents, I favor a five-race faction system: the standard, the stout, the high folk, the magical, and the cute.

[Meph]

It doesnt matter that gnomes are inactive or not. Or the other races that are inactive. Because both their sieges and their caravans can be triggered on purpose. Its just different. For example gnomes only arrive in Dwarf forts, when you discovered steampower (waking the gnomes curiousity).

Or werebeasts only attack if you did something in a specific workshop. Or every time you make adamantine, you have a 1% chance to trigger a shade attack. Things like that.

Inactive also helps keeping the sieges down. With 19 races, 3 of them allies, its quite hard to fight 15 enemies. But if 3 of these enemies are inactive. And 3 are skulking. and 3 are underground... it looks a lot better. Only 6 real enemies left.

Indigo Fenix: How would you do a fifths group? Skulking doesnt work as group, the only other thing I can see is "all-hostile", which is of course rather bland, because everyone is your enemy.

[IndigoFenix]

No, I was making a suggestion that each faction should have five races: a standard race (human/orc), a tough, big, or stout race (dwarves/trolls) a high and somewhat stuck-up race (elves/drow) a magic-heavy race (warlocks) and a cute, funny, or weird race (gnomes/kobolds/goblins).  Just as a means of thematic guidance.  Take it or leave it, it doesn't have to work out that neatly.

[Meph]

Ah, I understand.

And damn. Now that you mention them. Drow. I forgot the poor guys.

[IndigoFenix]

Also, I'd say not to take out the automatons -  I was going to set them up as being the gnome's creations that went wrong.  I think they should be made more interesting and set up as endgame enemies, or possibly trigger-only ones.

[Meph]

I only put them aside, because:
1. they use guns only. A lot of people dislike guns.
2. they die out in worldgen a lot.

Thats it. If they get more refined, I see no reason not to put them in, as a hostile only race. I cant really see anyone trading with these guys.

[shadowclasper]

For drow I don't see why we need them? They're a tiny bit cliche compared to what we're doing with the rest of the races. Shades could totally be done.

But if we're going to do five man band type deal, then they should go in evil I guess as drow/deep elves or something for their 'normal' race. Also, we could keep the whole ashlander theme with them. They live deep underground near the magma sea, in the crystalline caverns. Their alliance with the Illithids (I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a better name for them if only because it irks me to see copyrighted names directly ripped off,)

Good guys need a magic heavy group I think still? So they need something. perhaps an avian race or something?

Wild races need a 'high' race. Perhaps Nymphs/Dryads/Satyrs type deal? Fae? Something like that?

Goblinoids could have magic heavy 'hobgoblins' perhaps?