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[E. Albright]

The last few patches have added a lot of what I'll call "piling on" events - things like "you had a really high reputation last month, so here's more reputation!" or "you didn't do as well last month as the month before, time to lose some reputation". They also included a bunch of "punish you for doing well" events, which are even more annoying. The one I hate the most is "you're doing well, so you extort the nations for $500k in cold hard cash, in exchange for 600 Capitatory Taxes" which charges a huge monthly maintenance if you don't immediately get rid of it, but displaces 60 storage and doesn't immediately arrive so you have to dump storage so that you can receive it so you can get rid of it.

[None]

Whew, scummy, that one.

Restarted in North America, having done the last save in Malaysia. I've probably already completed as many missions by mid-february in the new save as I had by may in the previous one (lot more spawned a lot more accessibly), and I'm putting much less effort into interrogating captives. Seems that's kind of a noob trap- it tells you it's great for infamy, except that what you need are very specific equipment progression researches so you can arm yourself better and pull in more dough, and those researches give plenty of infamy on their own. I'll have three plantations to offset brainer costs, so I'm going to be well ahead much, much sooner.

So, this is better.

[Rolan7]

Yeah like a lot of things it's complicated.  Interrogation does give *decent* infamy and thus money, but that only pays off on a monthly basis.  It helps to interrogate each type of prisoner *once* since it usually improves the mission-score for capturing them in the future, and I'm pretty sure you get infamy for both the prison and the bonus tech...  but even that's not a top priority.

I *think* it's important to beeline techs like x-grog and bounty hunting first, to employ runts and get more missions to spawn.  Theoretically you could be researching and repairing the helicopter or whatever, but I've never gotten the early air game to work for me at all.

Interrogating all/most prisoners becomes profitable in the mid-game where it can pay off with early or exclusive access to important techs, but usually just gives a #data entry.  The odds of something good get better as you get the #data entries out of the way.  It's also good score, which is helping me remain in the red despite having three faction bases and North America overrun by Ninjas.

I managed to lock down the Ninja operations with a North American base, though - with two expensively-equipped Hunter-Killers, I've baaaarely managed to shoot down their further expansion attempts, and some of their salvage treads before they can do anything.  The bikes and jets they scramble do some damage, but the HK's can outrun them and I have three now so one's generally healthy at all times.

[Robsoie]

Can you completely destroy those sky ninjas bases and eliminate them effectively or are they respawning after a while ?
And at what point is it do-able to destroy their base ?

[E. Albright]

I got sick of them on the play-through I was doing on my laptop on vacation and debug-mode killed them. They'll be gone after that, but... it's a three-stage fight starting with a 14mm-turret-laden airfield, and ending with a plasma-turret-laden sky fortress. There's near to 400 units spread across the 3 maps. I'm gonna say they're not realistic to get rid of before late game.

[sambojin]

They do seem to be one of those things that could be "toned right the hell down". I know it's meant to be a game with some challenges in it, but it's also meant to be fun to play. That the ninjas group-up repeatedly in early-mid game doesn't allow for all the fun-bullshit to happen, or even expansion of options on how you want to play, or options for it, which is essentially the point of an xcom/any-mod playthrough, which removes the joy of this. Try and play it how you want, even with certain challenges, even a bit slowly, but not too slow. Discover and be immersed in new content and factions and lore and challenges contained in the mod. But there's not meant to be "must do this, or fail". It's meant to be fun, a certain amount of power-fantasy, and still have many challenges. Some of which you're not prepared for, some of which you are, but not walls there-of. It's not meant to be a waste of your time due to mod-mechanics that crop-up regularly in many people's games that shut entire playthroughs down.

This is not a roguelike. It's not meant to be a save-scum either.

Ninjas seem to not fit properly into many people's playthroughs, so should be altered and toned down. Or scaled sufficiently that they're not an unenjoyment wall. Or removed until the time that they can be at this level of additional enjoyment to playthroughs, instead of the negative they still seem to be (similar to slightly overly high armour and sight and reaction values on some mission-turrets. They're meant to be tough, but they're meant to be blown-up, by the player, even without truly optimal play or game-engine knowledge. A cool feature, a set-piece, not a "don't go there bitch, unless you've got this-much-shit!" so early on in the game). Make them tough, but make them enjoyable to kill.

(I've never thought of xpiratez as some weird DDR or Cataclysm-DDA roguelike-experience, where certain things are assumed for the gamer to have-to-have-to-do, or the developers jumped off a cliff gameplay-wise to provide you a cliff-like learning-curve experience on the game/mod they were developing. It's usually been fun playing it. It seems like the ninja-base-bullshit is detracting and detrimental to the mod, so should be fucked right off until it feels fun and enjoyable and balanced. So says I)

((And yes, this is on a Dwarf Fortress forum. Because, there's something to be said about "not making games/mods as messed up as DF is, learning-wise", for players of said game/mod. I mean, it works, really really well))

[E. Albright]

The current game I'm playing on my desktop has ninjas set up in central Asia and I've pretty much been able to ignore them. Admittedly, this is a VERY savescummed playthrough, and a peasant revolution playthrough as well - at this point I've got three Rev HQs so I tend to see a lot of craft flying out of the base even though it's well outside any radar circle. But this time has felt like an anomaly - every past time the ninjas have been intolerable. I'm fairly well along, albeit all over the tech tree and avoiding a lot of "affects progression" missions. They haven't done any raid missions yet, and I have no idea why - even the game I had where they were based on Hawaii they did raid missions. It's weird, and it's just underscored how much of an uncontrollable random factor they feel like.

[Robsoie]

I'll have to try, i'm always putting back xpiratez on the backburner because of a problem or another i read about (the balance with the sky ninjas getting out of hands most recently), waiting for the next version to fix/balance things, hopefully the one that will come will do it for me

Rosigma 1.08E is available

Spoiler: changelog (click to show/hide)

- FIX: Female Inquisitor Storm Trooper voices not playing (format change).
- FIX: Overwriting issue with recruit captive projects. Each faction now has unique projects and language strings to prevent this. You may notice some cost changes as a result, and different produced soldier type for the captives depending on faction.

- Changed buy requirements for 40mm grenades to enable cross faction use. Most become available at mid-tier, while melta 40mm requires melta researh as well.

- NEW MUSIC: About 20 new tracks for geoscape and battlescape added. Nod to Shadow of the Horned Rat, Dark Omen, Vandal Hearts and Rites of War for that 90ies game music.

- MISSION: On the Guard Assist Marines Mission, added 2xDevastator Marine AI to STR_MARINE_ASSAULT_SITE + buffed the stat lines of the Tactical Marines that drop in. In addition, they get chainswords, krak grenades and on highest tech levels meltaguns and Stormbolters (the game will randomly assign such loadouts depending on month).

- MISSION CHANGE: Added Early Ork (and Grots!) as potential occupants of the Deserter Hideout in month 1-3. Grots are pretty rare otherwise.

INQUISITION
- FIX: Gave the Panzergrenadiers that show up by requisition event strength 70 so they can use their weapons.

GUARD
- NEW WEAPONS: Stubcannon, Assault Stubber, High Grade Autogun, HG Autogun/Underslung and Heavy Sniper Rifle (autocannon based).
- High Grade Autoguns can use standard Autogun magazines, as well as their own 40 round drum magazines (standard and AP variants) with stronger ammo. The AP drums are available at Ceramite research. The HG Autogun got a bayonet, while the underslung can instead fire a number of 40mm grenades (INC, KRAK, MELTA + Buckshot and Slugs). They have upgraded rates of fire and accuracy for autofire. Their heavy weight and recoil makes them ideal for Abhuman Guard to use.
- The Stubcannon is a really big pistol that can fire the 40mm ammo types.
- The Assault Stubber is a mid-tier Heavy Stubber with twin barrels and a higher rate of fire, close to the Rotor Cannons (but not quite). Its heavy weight also requires a strong wielder.
- The Heavy Sniper Rifle is a AT-rifle based on the Autocannon, it has 50 recoil and hits like a truck. Stay still and it can get off 2 shots a turn. It lacks snap fire however. It uses 2 ammo types, a cheaper and larger clip size of standard rounds at 120 power, and a stronger AP round with higher armor piercing and power, at a higher cost per bullet. Good for dealing with Chaos Marines.

ADEPTAS:
- Made Jove Boltgun Mid-Tier.
- BUFF: Jove, Hellspite, Mephisto, Dominion and Elohim Boltguns have had their ranges buffed a few tiles, they are now clear upgrades over the starting De'Az.

ASTARTES:
- BUFF: Standard Boltguns (incl Stalker and Cawl) gets a effective range buff.

[Aoi]

I got sick of them on the play-through I was doing on my laptop on vacation and debug-mode killed them. They'll be gone after that, but... it's a three-stage fight starting with a 14mm-turret-laden airfield, and ending with a plasma-turret-laden sky fortress. There's near to 400 units spread across the 3 maps. I'm gonna say they're not realistic to get rid of before late game.

I thought the plasma turrets only show up on the third upgrade of the base, which you're not 'supposed' to let it get to. My last game didn't last long enough to see a T3 ninja base, but I remember seeing a few events from the T1->T2 transition basically saying 'Looks like those ninjas are up to something, might want to stop them now before they become a real problem...' followed by a change in the icon on the map with corresponding detection radius growth... and them instagibbing my craft on launch, leading me to shelving it.

[Robsoie]

Really not fan of some of the new musics included in this new rosigma, some have so much trumpets it seems like a circus music and you expect clowns and animals stunts instead of battles.

Fortunately openxcom makes it very easy to fix that to your tast , as music isn't defined in a ruleset you can just add or remove musics you like/dislike , just make sure sounds files are named on the correct convention so openxcom recognize the soundtrack and use it where needed :
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Audio_Options_(OpenXcom)#Custom_Music

edit : additionally it's possible to define the actual name of the song so it appears in the OXCE extended option (if you enable the extended option button) that allow to change the music at any time. It's in  YourOpenXCOMdirectory\User\mods\ROSIGMA-main\Language\  , the en-US.yml and ru.yml

In current version of Rosigma :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  GMGEO3: "Chaos Gate Track #3"
  GMGEO4: "Final Liberation Track #1"
  GMGEO5: "Final Liberation Track #2"
  GMGEO6: "Final Liberation Track #3"
  GMGEO7: "Rites of War"
  GMGEO8: "Respite"
  GMGEO9: "The Imperium of Man"
  GMGEO10: "Warseer"
  GMGEO11: "Seven Advance"
  GMGEO12: "Scorpion"
  GMGEO13: "Aspect Warriors"
  GMGEO14: "Fanfare"
  GMGEO15: "Dark Omens"
  GMGEO16: "Shadow of the Horned Rat"
  GMGEO17: "Ruins"
  GMGEO18: "Decisive Battles"
 
  GMTACTIC4: "Final Liberation Battle Track #1"
  GMTACTIC5: "Final Liberation Battle Track #2"
  GMTACTIC6: "Final Liberation Battle Track #3"
  GMTACTIC7: "Final Liberation Battle Track #4"
  GMTACTIC8: "Warsmith"
  GMTACTIC9: "Warlock"
  GMTACTIC10: "Military Tactics"
  GMTACTIC11: "Mountains Approaches"
  GMTACTIC12: "Tensions"
  GMTACTIC13: "Dark Battle"
  GMTACTIC14: "Chase"
  GMTACTIC15: "Tense Battle"
  GMTACTIC16: "Ork We Go"
  GMTACTIC17: "The Sacrifice"
  GMTACTIC18: "The Scary Forces of Evil"
  GMTACTIC19: "Occultists"
  GMTACTIC20: "Crisis"
  GMTACTIC21: "Street Fighting"
  GMTACTIC22: "Shivers"
  GMTACTIC23: "Enemy Strike"
  GMTACTIC24: "Final Liberation Battle Track #13 - Go Hard"

In previous version it was

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  GMGEO3: "Chaos Gate Track #3"
  GMGEO4: "Final Liberation Track #1"
  GMGEO5: "Final Liberation Track #2"
  GMGEO6: "Final Liberation Track #3"

  GMTACTIC4: "Final Liberation Battle Track #1"
  GMTACTIC5: "Final Liberation Battle Track #2"
  GMTACTIC6: "Final Liberation Battle Track #3"
  GMTACTIC7: "Final Liberation Battle Track #4"

[ZebioLizard2]

They do seem to be one of those things that could be "toned right the hell down". I know it's meant to be a game with some challenges in it, but it's also meant to be fun to play. That the ninjas group-up repeatedly in early-mid game doesn't allow for all the fun-bullshit to happen, or even expansion of options on how you want to play, or options for it, which is essentially the point of an xcom/any-mod playthrough, which removes the joy of this. Try and play it how you want, even with certain challenges, even a bit slowly, but not too slow. Discover and be immersed in new content and factions and lore and challenges contained in the mod. But there's not meant to be "must do this, or fail". It's meant to be fun, a certain amount of power-fantasy, and still have many challenges. Some of which you're not prepared for, some of which you are, but not walls there-of. It's not meant to be a waste of your time due to mod-mechanics that crop-up regularly in many people's games that shut entire playthroughs down.

Going by what I've seen of development they seem to shut down a lot of strategies that pop up again and again rather then embrace the power fantasy. One of those kinds of developer races against the players to fight against what they don't feel is the right way to play the mod.

[Robsoie]

What are the things you would like to see either gone or modified to make the sky ninjas an actual fun element of the game instead of the unfun feature it is for you guys ?
Maybe with some rul edit or minimod to do it automatically it can be fixed entirely ?

[Rolan7]

It'd be nice if they didn't mobilize until I at least started researching craft weapons to some extent. Having my Airbus shot down is one thing, but particularly bites when I have no response even researched.

My solution was to make the Airbus/van thing "stealthy" because they're civilian craft (and they suck so it's balanced IMO). I'd love to do that with the Turtle but the codex ships might have implied Cloaking Devices which would ironically make them NOT stealthy to ninjas. I think I let the Blowfish be stealth "because like c'mon".

I do sorta like the ninja in a lot of ways. Recovering the tracs I shoot down is a "farmable" source of Jack badges, at the cost of a panzerfaust to knock out the turret (probably overkill but it chews up my revolutionaries so I don't mind the cost).

I think I'm in March of second year and I don't think the main base has hit tier 3. Sounds like I would know and my farming op would go bad fast.

[E. Albright]

I thought the plasma turrets only show up on the third upgrade of the base, which you're not 'supposed' to let it get to. My last game didn't last long enough to see a T3 ninja base, but I remember seeing a few events from the T1->T2 transition basically saying 'Looks like those ninjas are up to something, might want to stop them now before they become a real problem...' followed by a change in the icon on the map with corresponding detection radius growth... and them instagibbing my craft on launch, leading me to shelving it.

If you want to get rid of them permanently, you need to take out the Sky Fortress they use to found new bases. It starts with plasma turrets. When I wiped them in debug mode, the (first and only, never upgraded) base I hit was a standard airfield w/14mm turrets - and after I cleared it, I proceeded to stage 2, which was the outside of the Sky Fortress, bristling with plasma turrets. Stage 3 was the inside. Once I cleared that, there was a message saying that the Sky Ninjas were basically done, though IIRC it did say I'd still get normal SN missions (ie, the kind where they raid Loknarrs).

Supposedly, Long Rang Flamers are a reasonable way to take out turrets on the cheap. Haven't tried it - the one or two crawlers I popped in my current game I just smacked with Ye Olde Assault Canone from outside of line of sight.

[Robsoie]

I checked the rulesets file, and if i understand well the Piratez_Factions.rul

Spoiler: ninja bases and hq spawning chances (click to show/hide)

- difficulty 0
There shouldn't have a Ninja HQ spawning (i see a minDifficulty: 1 for it)
At month 24 , there is 36% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning , an event that should happen only once (maxRuns: 1)

- difficulty 1
During month 3, there is 100% of chance of a Ninja HQ spawning
During month 9, there is 23% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 24, there is 36% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning (this one has a maxDifficulty: 1 so it shouldn't happen in higher difficulty)
During month 25, there is 7% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning

- difficulty 2
During month 3, there is 100% of chance of a Ninja HQ spawning
During month 9, there is 23% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 18, there is 36% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 25, there is 7% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 30, there is 36% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning

-difficulty 3
During month 3, there is 100% of chance of a Ninja HQ spawning
During month 9, there is 23% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 11, there is 36% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 18, there is 36% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 25, there is 7% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 30, there is 36% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning

-difficulty 4
During month 1, there is 100% of chance of a Ninja base spawning
During month 3, there is 100% of chance of a Ninja HQ spawning
During month 9, there is 23% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 11, there is 36% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 18, there is 36% of chances  to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 25, there is 7% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning
During month 30, there is 36% of chances to have a Ninja base spawning