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[Robsoie]

Ah that was it, thank you i was puzzled at that situation.

[Aoi]

In the end i think i would still get the deal for the weapons if you don't have yet access to easily acquirable lasers, those eurosyndicate versions of the lasers are in their stats very good.
The -1500 score can be managed by doing more mission (and shooting down enemy UFO and assault their crashed ships) to get better score, thanks to the good lasers

Just make sure you can afford them too-- a laspistol is 7.5k a clip, with the gun itself costing 200k. At the time I accidentally made the deal, I was still using musket balls... that cost a mere 30 a pop.

[Dostoevsky]

So, I've been avoiding trawling this thread too much as this is my first run of X-Piratez and I'm trying to avoid too many spoilers... but I am looking for some advice on dealing with Z-Troopers.

What early-to-mid-game weaponry is good at taking them down relatively quickly? At this point, every mission I face them turns into a long slog whittling them down - not incredibly difficult, just a big waste of time & ammo. I don't have access to production of non-ballistic weaponry yet (mainly using UAC/Auto[X]-line weaponry or thereabouts), and my best armor is chainmail. Melee remains too risky, unfortunately.

The best I've been able to come up with is using UAC chainguns, boarding guns, and/or light cannons to strip armor, but it still takes too much time & ammo.

[E. Albright]

Oh, I feel topical! The last landed craft I did was full of Z-Troopers!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Chain + shield is relatively decent against Zs in melee. I don't think I'd do chain alone though. And melee is attractive by the numbers - as well as by distracting Z-Troopers so they can't just snipe you. Smacking them with a spiked mace is a decent way of making them vulnerable and non-shooty, though they get really bitey, so again I'd want at least chain + shield. Also, this is cheap.

If you have ranged electric options, those are surprisingly effective - they ignore a chunk of armor and will progress the Z-Trooper to "injured and mostly unarmored Z-Trooper" just as well as lethal options. So if you have electric lassos, zappers, or (sigh) tasers, you might be able to go this route. You could also do cattle prods in this vein. Unless you're going with tasers, this is cheap.

Lots of explosives also works. Including, yes, chemical explosives. That's not cheap, alas.

There's no easier way that I know of, alas. I really like electric for reasonably-fast Z-Troop stripping myself, but if you haven't branched out to get ranged electric that might not be an option.

[Robsoie]

In the end i think i would still get the deal for the weapons if you don't have yet access to easily acquirable lasers, those eurosyndicate versions of the lasers are in their stats very good.
The -1500 score can be managed by doing more mission (and shooting down enemy UFO and assault their crashed ships) to get better score, thanks to the good lasers

Just make sure you can afford them too-- a laspistol is 7.5k a clip, with the gun itself costing 200k. At the time I accidentally made the deal, I was still using musket balls... that cost a mere 30 a pop.

By the time i had the deal available, i was swimming in money actually as with all the missions and selling of loot/ransoms (as there's a lot of enemy type that can't be researched anymore at that point of my run) profit was going very high so i could afford those insane pricing.
But it's true that if money is still a problem in your current game with the deal become available, researching the deal for the weapons is probably something to postpone until your getting a better money flow.

[Dostoevsky]

Oh, I feel topical! The last landed craft I did was full of Z-Troopers!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Chain + shield is relatively decent against Zs in melee. I don't think I'd do chain alone though. And melee is attractive by the numbers - as well as by distracting Z-Troopers so they can't just snipe you. Smacking them with a spiked mace is a decent way of making them vulnerable and non-shooty, though they get really bitey, so again I'd want at least chain + shield. Also, this is cheap.

If you have ranged electric options, those are surprisingly effective - they ignore a chunk of armor and will progress the Z-Trooper to "injured and mostly unarmored Z-Trooper" just as well as lethal options. So if you have electric lassos, zappers, or (sigh) tasers, you might be able to go this route. You could also do cattle prods in this vein. Unless you're going with tasers, this is cheap.

Lots of explosives also works. Including, yes, chemical explosives. That's not cheap, alas.

There's no easier way that I know of, alas. I really like electric for reasonably-fast Z-Troop stripping myself, but if you haven't branched out to get ranged electric that might not be an option.

Hmm, thanks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cattle prods are my -only- electric option, so I must be missing something. Guess it's time to pick research topics with an eye for electric weaponry, thanks.

I did just unlock a couple of new merchants with heavy ballistics/explosives, so at least I can always throw money at it in the form of heavy ordnance. Money is something I have plenty of, at least...

[Soadreqm]

In the end i think i would still get the deal for the weapons if you don't have yet access to easily acquirable lasers, those eurosyndicate versions of the lasers are in their stats very good.

Well, I got NERF laser pistols and the musket-styled three-shot Laslock pistols. I guess I'll think about it.

Dostoevsky, Confederate gear includes electric lassos, which are range seven, and do 60 electric damage. They need high throwing skill to be effective, and a lot of TUs, but they're great if you have someone who can wield them. I can't remember what the exact research path was, I think it might be one of the bounty hunting rewards.

[Dostoevsky]

Oh, thanks. I had figured the confed gear was mainly the Eagle, which I had already acquired elsewhere. Guess I should work up that bounty, then.

[E. Albright]

IIRC it's a Jack bounty, and yeah, lassos are great until you get zappers. Shorter ranged and need throwing, but unlimited ammo, so it's 30k up-front then never again.

[Iduno]

Dostoevsky, Confederate gear includes electric lassos, which are range seven, and do 60 electric damage. They need high throwing skill to be effective, and a lot of TUs, but they're great if you have someone who can wield them. I can't remember what the exact research path was, I think it might be one of the bounty hunting rewards.

You can train throwing by using bows and/or leather whips early on. Decent enough weapons that early in the game. Although I move on to something good once I can. Winning a few early lassos off Jack is always nice.

So, I've been avoiding trawling this thread too much as this is my first run of X-Piratez and I'm trying to avoid too many spoilers... but I am looking for some advice on dealing with Z-Troopers.

Fire solves (nearly) all problems. At 200 hp and only 150% damage from fire, you might need incendiary grenades instead of molotovs or willie pete. The good news is they also start everything else nearby on fire. I'm actually not sure if there is a way to be morale immune or not, so it might also make any not killed zombies panic.

[Robsoie]

Though i still don't understand why i noticed several times already neophyte surviving 2 direct hits and being killed only on the 3rd shot from a powerful eurosyndicate markslaser ( 55 laser damage) when i saw several time an enforcer getting one shot killed by the same weapons.

As a markslaser is a type of sniper rifle, i don't think some kind of long range damage drop can explain that (considering said killed enforcers were really far and several of those neophyte were much closer, most of the time only 5/6 tiles away) , any idea ?
(the neophyte situation happened too many time for me to just be a fluke, i think there's a game mechanic i am missing there)

All of the church units are resistant to laser, because of the force circuitry.

Back to that , as i am running into more of those low health/low armor enemies that resist 2 laser shots and aren't church of sirius related.
After searching, apparently it's not a case of church force circuitry as only ranked above zealot church member have one. It's related mostly on a random factor in armor penetration i was completely unaware of since of all the time i have played old xcom

The way damage works is:
1- Take the average damage of the weapon
2- multiply by 0 to 200% (or 50% to 150% with the TftD formula)
3- Apply the damage modifier of the armor
4- Substract armor
5- If anything is left, remove HP.
6- If HP was removed, also remove 10% of damage, rounded up, from the armor value.

No idea if xpiratez used the original or TftD version of the random damage multiplier, but in both case it is very possible to have low HP/low armor guys without any special anti-laser protection to resist 2 shots from a markslaser.

The explanation to me seeing those cases happening a bit too often is simple : bad luck a lot and probably the fact that bad luck situation leave more of a mark on your memory than good luck, because good luck in those numbers also explain why i one-shotted so many armored enemies too

[Rolan7]

Yeah firearm damage is very variable like that, which is pretty rough for the players.  When average damage would barely penetrate the armor, an almost-double "crit" can easily go past that flat reduction and do a lot of damage.  And for serious weapons like Gauss that means any hit has a significant chance of killing through decent armor.  Piercing-resistance is probably more important than the DR in such cases, but comparing the resistances on armor is a chore since I don't think there's a key to scroll the 'pedia pages down, have to click the down arrow.

Oh and like you point out, it's rougher for players since losing a gal to a crit hurts a lot more than critting on some mooks helps.

I think sniper rifles take the average of two rolls, greatly normalizing their damage.  Chainguns etc also normalize (both accuracy and damage) simply by firing many times, which is a reason I favor them: reliability, even in low-accuracy firing modes.  The ones with armor-pre-dmg are also obviously great against armor, since they don't have to even penetrate the armor to wear it down shot by shot.

[amjh]

If you aren't familiar with the tech tree you should get all bounties when they become affordable, you need low-level bounties to unlock higher lever ones and some are needed to unlock research.

[Aoi]

If you have a vibro weapon (I think I picked up a pair of vibro swords before Zombie Troopers started showing up), they're worth using as well; they're fast hits, do midgame damage, and bypass a chunk of armor. Even a semi-trained gal has a good chance of running up, stabbing one to death, and ducking behind a corner.

[Rince Wind]

You can see what unlocks what in the bootypedia entry.

And yes Piratez uses both Xcom and TftD damage formula, and others. You can see it in the anal window.