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Author Topic: So OpenX-Com...  (Read 241936 times)

Iduno

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1035 on: September 05, 2019, 09:23:29 am »

I kinda think Dioxine has a very specific tech tree traversal in mind where difficulty scales smoothly, and none of us here are doing it.

I read some of the succession game on their forum to get ideas of what to do...they were fighting Marsec (and collecting power armor parts) before they had dojo technology. I guess if you can win at them, early pogroms are great for score and loot (including hostages). Maybe knowing which techs progress enemy power would help. I'm wondering if breaking hostages is related to the Star Gods showing up.
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1036 on: September 05, 2019, 01:47:46 pm »

Is it just me or is the difficulty curve of Piratez real weird?

Early game, your technology is trash, and most of the research won't pay off for a year or more. But the enemies are worse than you are if you're careful.

Late game, you've got powerful enemies, but you're walking around with a small army in power armor and super weapons.

Mid-game you've got low-end star gods with waspites and cyclopses (maybe mercenaries, maybe a base or two that need to get taken out), almost enough gals who are trained to or near maximum, and weapons that sometimes can harm enemies very slightly. There is just a point where enemy armor and resists are too high for anything you might have. It just feels like a slog. Mid-game is also when you need to join the mutant alliance so you can get through that technology hurdle and be able to handle the mutant pogroms you suddenly *have* to do to keep your score from bottoming out. The bases sitting around and the disruptive transmissions aren't helping at this point.

I don't really see a problem. Pogroms really aren't that bad even if you join early, and the point loss if you meet early star gods or mercs isn't that painful unless you had a really bad month. Disruptive transmissions stop being a threat once you have any ship that can go into space, I think a hunter killer can, as can greys menace ship. And again, the pointloss doesn't seem to be much, a ressource extraction or two seem way worse.
I know of exactly one mission you have to fight, as it won't come up again, all the others you can ignore if you want, unless they attack your base.
I fought one merc pogrom where I captured at least one of every kind that I needed (seductress ftw!) and have mostly ignored them since. I'll probably attack their base soonish as it seems there is now a commander I need.

I'd say difficulty curve is better than vanilla, where the beginning is the hardest, because even a sectoid with a pistol kills you in 1 shot more often than not. But at the end it is basically a cakewalk, you fly around in armor that usually lets you survive at least one hit from a cannon, and are better armored than any enemy save sectopods (maybe?), while you are shooting that same cannon. When you factor in psi that lets you control 3 enemies per turn with one dude fairly reliably and the launcher that gives you heavy artillery with incredible accuracy you are unstoppable.
In pirates the end game is more difficult. It is harder to produce everything, nothing is equally good against every enemy (I love my XG Assaults, but they aren't very good when mercs turn up for example) and sectopods with shields are scary no matter your armor and weapons. Heavy armor slows you down, doesn't help against voodoo and you still can't hover above chryssalids in them.


I kinda think Dioxine has a very specific tech tree traversal in mind where difficulty scales smoothly, and none of us here are doing it.
I doubt that, he wants to give you options, and the occasional out of depth encounter is supposed to keep you on your toes and remind you that running is always an option. You even get a weapon right at the that lets you kill the occasional marsec dude from midrange: the gothic raygun is MADE for these times.
Some of the more primitive weapons, especially throwing ones like javelins and axes are really scary in the right hands and you have them from basically the start. The humble axe itself is still a good choice in the lategame. Sure, you have more fancy stuff like vibro axes, but the regular one kills stuff dead nonetheless.

I read some of the succession game on their forum to get ideas of what to do...they were fighting Marsec (and collecting power armor parts) before they had dojo technology. I guess if you can win at them, early pogroms are great for score and loot (including hostages). Maybe knowing which techs progress enemy power would help. I'm wondering if breaking hostages is related to the Star Gods showing up.

No, star gods are timed just as mercs are. The rest is just RNG. If you don't do much more than survive and don't get more brainers they will still show up, but now you will die and can't really do anything if they ever come to your base.
Marsec dudes are slow and die to axes pretty well. The scary thing about them is the better weapons they mostly carry. Bad on an open field, but not to hard too deal with when you can approach under cover.
Early voodoo can help as well, though I admit I never used wenches or theban outfits. But the midgame seductress is just really strong against a lot of armored enemies.
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AzyWng

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1037 on: September 05, 2019, 02:23:53 pm »

Mostly I just kill or knock out my foes.

I'm starting from a fresh save and haven't gotten far enough to unlock any seduction-based outfits. If/when I do unlock them, how can I make the best use of them?
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1038 on: September 05, 2019, 02:38:24 pm »

Wench is hard to use, because you cannot run and I think both attacks are melee (range). Seductress on the other hand is later, but you have a ranged attack, the seductress herself just needs to see it, and it is pretty strong, two or three attacks usually send a bodyguard or a merc sleeping (on a good gal you have 2 attacks, iirc). She can't run either and has her hands full with the same melee range attacks as the wench.

They are all fragile, but often you don't even need to take the seductress out of the ship to neutralise most threats. They kinda need a gal to supply them with grog if you want to use them continually. The attack also doesn't provoke reaction shots, but be careful if you have to take a few steps to get into cover.
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Aoi

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1039 on: September 05, 2019, 03:16:53 pm »

I did weird tech tree shenanigans in my last game and it worked out quite well... Though it does make advancing certain techs really hard, since it involved delaying opening certain types of mission opening tech.

Taking grey means no mandatory pogroms and delaying development meant I was rocking gauss by the time I had to fight anything tougher than starting-class enemies... Also means you can rush certain things when you fi ally do get around to them: It took like two weeks for me to go from joining the mutant alliance to establishing the self-defense force.
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1040 on: September 05, 2019, 04:08:19 pm »

I put off establishing the MSDF until Eridians and their mutant suppressions came. I really don't mind pogroms much. :D
In the lategame you don't get them often anyway, because the pool of possible mission is just huge.

I don't actually like the regular gauss weapons much (apart from the sniper), they are not very accurate, and against the vast majority of enemies something quicker and more flexible like smartguns work perfectly well.
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E. Albright

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1041 on: September 05, 2019, 04:08:51 pm »

Marsec dudes are slow and die to axes pretty well.

No vehicle should ever go out without a sledgehammer or something comparable to it. I've had absolute schlubs 1-to-2-shot reapers, Marsec bodyguards, mercs, zombie troopers... It might not be easy to get into melee with it, and evasion is possible, but it's something you start with that more or less laughs at armor. It *does* sometimes disintegrate corpses, so do be aware of that.
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1042 on: September 05, 2019, 04:14:41 pm »

I also love driving around with the assault bike and axe people and things. It is not as strong as other melee options, but I just had an assault bike kill two cyberdiscs in a turn that foolishly came to the ground. (not that being above ground would have helped them, gals in Blitzarmor with blood and vibro axes were at the ready)
Ok, she ate a reaction shot and will be in hospital for a while, but it was worth it!
Also tested Furiosa for the first time, and so far I am not impressed. But then I didn't do much HP damage, mostly just hit them in the head with the butt of a Kustom Handcannon.
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Soadreqm

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1043 on: September 05, 2019, 04:59:58 pm »

I'm starting from a fresh save and haven't gotten far enough to unlock any seduction-based outfits. If/when I do unlock them, how can I make the best use of them?
The Wench isn't worth it, you only get a melee seduction attack, and it's blocked by armor. Might as well just taze them.
The Seductress, though, is great. Seduction is a voodoo power that can target anything in the gal's line of sight, and completely ignores armor, making it excellent against a lot of things that are just near immune to basic guns. It consumes a lot of energy, but you also get access to Good Touch, which restores energy at the cost of stun damage. Have a second gal with something that can restore either of those (x-grog, water canteens, nurse outfit stims) and you're golden.
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Iduno

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1044 on: September 06, 2019, 08:49:08 am »

Marsec dudes are slow and die to axes pretty well. The scary thing about them is the better weapons they mostly carry. Bad on an open field, but not to hard too deal with when you can approach under cover.
Early voodoo can help as well, though I admit I never used wenches or theban outfits. But the midgame seductress is just really strong against a lot of armored enemies.

No problem with that. It looks like I'll have plasma fully unlocked before I ever see any Marsec. Space is an issue for me, because I've never seen a set of power armor, so I can't research exosuits. I also just recently found a young uber.


No vehicle should ever go out without a sledgehammer or something comparable to it. I've had absolute schlubs 1-to-2-shot reapers, Marsec bodyguards, mercs, zombie troopers... It might not be easy to get into melee with it, and evasion is possible, but it's something you start with that more or less laughs at armor. It *does* sometimes disintegrate corpses, so do be aware of that.

A cattle prod is also 2-handed, doesn't allow a dodge, ignores 25% armor, and does the maximum damage a hammer can on a fully-trained gal right out of the gate. You have to worry about resistances, but concussive (the hammer) is pretty commonly resisted. All for fewer TU and energy. Plus, it's great to overload the circuits of some stupid robot (electric usually ignores stun resist) so you can take them apart back at base. Hammer and pickaxe are okay for walls, though.


It consumes a lot of energy, but you also get access to Good Touch, which restores energy at the cost of stun damage. Have a second gal with something that can restore either of those (x-grog, water canteens, nurse outfit stims) and you're golden.

I don't use the drinks much, but I know beer heals both stun and energy. It looks like combat drugs, rum, and x-grog are the only other things that do that.
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Mathel

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1045 on: September 06, 2019, 09:13:53 am »

No problem with that. It looks like I'll have plasma fully unlocked before I ever see any Marsec. Space is an issue for me, because I've never seen a set of power armor, so I can't research exosuits. I also just recently found a young uber.

There are plenty of EXO suits, but most of them are not even 0-G capable. The (manufacturable) armors that are O-G capable that I found so far are Space suits (of all species) and hovertanks.
Bootypedia tells me that Superhero, Anihilator and Sorceress also are 0-G capable.
Also, Syns, which I do not know how to acquire can go into space in any clothing apparently.

My standard armors were Harbringers (I am currently phasing in Brutes) and while they protect from hostile environment, they do are not allowed in space missions.
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1046 on: September 06, 2019, 09:24:48 am »

Marsec Dudes can show up in year one, don't you go to landed ships? Don't you shoot down ships?
A Menace and a hunter killer with gauss and seagulls can down most medium military ships without much trouble.

I just unlocked plasma (which took longer than it should have because I never built a study until now, it arrived ingame when I was way into the midgame and I thought it would only provide the 4 brainer slots, I had enough without it. Also never had a study, because back then the only thing it was good for was 2 brainers, which wasn't worth the space for me), and I can assure you you'll see power armor parts, because you need a broken Academy Provost. Breaking him should give you the parts.


----
I have a special squad for space missions (based in the main base), and I just found out that the superhero armor I could produce for ages is space worthy. Oh well, I had the ressources to make three immediately, so half the squad finally has armor, yay!


Mathel: You deleted the wrong line, that was Iduno, not me. ;)

I never used the brute. It has less mobility than blitz and less protection than harbinger. Maybe I should built a couple, as they are more mobile than the harbinger, while not much worse. Might be a good fit for the 2nd squad.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1047 on: September 06, 2019, 09:34:40 am »

I read some of the succession game on their forum to get ideas of what to do...they were fighting Marsec (and collecting power armor parts) before they had dojo technology. I guess if you can win at them, early pogroms are great for score and loot (including hostages). Maybe knowing which techs progress enemy power would help. I'm wondering if breaking hostages is related to the Star Gods showing up.

No, star gods are timed just as mercs are. The rest is just RNG. If you don't do much more than survive and don't get more brainers they will still show up, but now you will die and can't really do anything if they ever come to your base.

There actually does seem to be a certain amount of difficulty/advancement of the enemies tied to your own. If you look at certain research topics (usually flight plans or captured troops, I think) they are the triggers for hidden techs like "the guild is alarmed" or "the guild is angry." These, in turn, have a listing (in J17, at least, with its slight bugs relating to text output) of "STR_AFFECTS_GAME_PROGRESS." I think an example of this in practice is the

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I think some of the progression is linked to time & RNG, while other progression is linked to your own.
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Iduno

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1048 on: September 06, 2019, 12:10:26 pm »

Marsec Dudes can show up in year one, don't you go to landed ships? Don't you shoot down ships?
A Menace and a hunter killer with gauss and seagulls can down most medium military ships without much trouble.

I just haven't seen anything this run. RNG be weird. Also, I've only gotten 2 vehicle gauss parts, so I can't assemble them. The game gave me way more ganger (b-boys, highwaymen, and hoes) and academy missions than anything else, followed by ratlings. Then makes up for it by giving me low-level government agents and megapol (who are terrible hostages for interrogating) then just star gods. I don't remember seeing the guild yet in almost 2 years (I think it's September). No fat guys being ferried around, nothing.
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Rince Wind

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Re: So OpenX-Com...
« Reply #1049 on: September 06, 2019, 12:56:54 pm »

Damn! That sucks.

I was waiting for another science ship for a long time myself. Had everything researched that I could (well, apart from those things needing a study ... ).

I am drowning in Gauss Ammo, I already disassembled a few guns because I couldn't use them and I keep getting more. I'd love another gatling laser, but so far i have only the one I got from my very first smuggler ship. And I should really upgrade some more gauss into lasers/plasma spitters, but I also want to use up that ammo. :D
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