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[Draxis]

Yeah, they've actually improved it a lot over the last month or so but there is still pretty bad lag half the time.  Before, it was this fast on a good day.

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler: Proposed ship (click to show/hide)

Resources: 94 RU.
Starship: unnamed, hybrid Ark-Outpost Ship
Total Size: 140 units
Structure mass: 30 units.

Installed components:
•4 Ark Cryobays.  Size 10x4, mass 15x4.  -10x4 power.
2* Expanded superstructure. Cost: 20 RU*2. Mass 15 units*2. + 30 size*2
Atmospheric flight conversion. Cost 10 RU. Mass 15 units. Size 5.
Rugged construction.  Cost 15 RU. Mass 5 units. Size 5 units.
Smart Command centre (optronic central computer /w Expert Systems) 30 RU. Size 2, Mass 2. Electricity 3 MW.
4*Electrostatic Ion Engine. 30 RU. Size 3. Mass 5. Electricity 5 MW. Thrust 7. Does not require fuel.
2*He-3 MCF Fusion generator /w external radiators. 10 RU Size 5 . Mass 6 . Generates 75 MW. Uses 1 Fuel/year.
Biodome /w hydroponics. 5 RU. Size 20. Mass 2.
Closed Loop Life Support /w hydroponics. 20  RU. Size 4 . Mass 3  Electricity 6  MW. Provides near-indefinite life support for 15  awake persons or 75 cryosleepers. Requires 1 additional person awake.
10*He-3 Fuel Tank. Cost 2 RU. Size 2  Mass 3 (including fuel). Holds 8 fuel
Cargo bay /w industrial cargo handling system. L. Cost 4 RU. Size 43. Mass  2. Allows the Outpost vessel to carry greater amount of cargo, adding 40 units of cargo space.
Automated Satellite Launcher. Cost 5 RU. Size 2. Mass 8.
Damage Control & machine shop. Cost 3 RU. Size 4. Mass 2. Electricity 1 MW.
Medical Bay. Cost 3 RU. Size 2. Mass 1. Electricity 1 MW
Recreational Commons. Cost 5 RU. Size 4. Mass 4 units. Electricity 1 MW
Focused Detection Array. 6 RU's. Size 1. Mass 1. Electricity 2 MW.

Total mass: 227 units.
Free space: -34 units.
Required power: 74 units.
Maximum power output: 150 units.
Total fuel: 80
Fuel remaining at destination:

Destination: System A
Flight time: unknown. (mass/thrust*5 years)

This is the stuff I'd like to have. Sadly, we appear to have run out of space. Current system has everything it needs, back-ups of everything it needs, and enough fuel to get to the four nearest star systems. In fact, I'm confident that it could also go back again, though the entire trip would take over a hundred years. Any additional mass of the cargo would not be a problem. Though we do have to solve the cargo problem.

Spoiler: Things that we might want to research (click to show/hide)

Ion engines. If we can increase power consumption and maintain power to thrust efficiency, we can make huge benefits for our vessel. Lowering cost would also be usefull
MCF fusion. Upping reliability can be a good thing, considering the situation. Fuel efficiency is no longer that important
Superstructure expansion: Making the ship a little bit larger would allow us to fit in a lot more stuff.
Cargo research: Upgrade the stuff we take, and such things.

     Ship modifications: (choose up to 4)
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity. )
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity.)
        -
        - Smart Command Center

    Science/Engineering Project: (choose 1, say how much RU to spend)
        - Superstructure Expansion (Basically, recalculate stuff so that we can attach a third expansion, even if that weights more than the previous two)

    Cargo purchase: (choose any number)
        -  Nothing

Event: Mission Destination
    Choose one:
        ( ) Star A or () Star B  or () Star C 

[zomara0292]

Resources: 94 RU.

This question will judge everything else below it. The statement above is the resorces we will have left after the planned ship is completed, correct?

Spoiler: Things that we might want to research (with Zomara's take on what should get what attention) (click to show/hide)

Ion engines: If we can increase power consumption and maintain power to thrust efficiency, we can make huge benefits for our vessel. Lowering cost would also be useful

Lowering the cost of our most expecive part will actualy allow us to put more RU elsewhere, such as research, or more/backup satellites. possibly 25 RU?

MCF fusion: Upping reliability can be a good thing, considering the situation. Fuel efficiency is no longer that important

Upping reliability isn't a bad thing, plus, maybe we can lower the mass/size of it at the same time. 24 RU?

Superstructure expansion: Making the ship a little bit larger would allow us to fit in a lot more stuff.

The whole thing kinda hinges on this being really really good, so I would say this should be of primary focus. I would put 30+ RU in this, more if we take from other things.

Cargo research: Upgrade the stuff we take, and such things.

I propose upgrading these things with the left over RU

• My First Factory kit: decrease the cost and the mass, while keeping the construction time the same, or lower
• Optronic Central Computer: see if we can decrease the cost of it by merging it with our smart command center
• Prefabricated General Laboratory: I donno. . . . maybe we can try to merge the Optronic computer with this too, which can hasten research speeds, i guess. I just feel bad that this seems to be rather lack luster.

[10ebbor10]

Yes. Though do note that the ship design doesn't include any cargo being stuffed into the cargo system. We're probably going to need resources for that as well.

If the system is the same as the one used in outpost 4 the RU cost simply provides a direct bonus on the d100 used to roll research.

[zomara0292]

Yes. Though do note that the ship design doesn't include any cargo being stuffed into the cargo system. We're probably going to need resources for that as well.

If the system is the same as the one used in outpost 4 the RU cost simply provides a direct bonus on the d100 used to roll research.

Hmm. . . . that would mean that I will have to dramatically decrease the amounts of RU that is set aside for research, if we expect to make use of the cargo space. . . . in that case, what would you feel is an appropriate percentage of RU to put towards research?

[escaped lurker]

Now, that would be 29 "constructions" by my count. We get 4 per turn, and we only get 5 of those. Well, 6 if we feel slightly suicidal. Then again, building a fuel-tank really shouldn't be that time consuming as it is now... *nudge-nudge*, *wink-wink*

Ahem. Looks fine in the rest of things thou. One thought - upgrading is always more difficult than building anew. (Small-scaled changes not-withstanding). How about we decide our "needed" cargo, see our RU-buffer, and then give half or quarter of it to research better expanded superstructure? We obviously would construct small stuff that doesn't get us above that 60% Treshold in this round, and if the dice favour us, we won't need a third expansion.

As for the cargo - bare necessities version;
1 Oxygen Extractor. Cost 5 RU. Size 2, Mass 4
~3 Air tanks & vac suits. 1 RU, Size 1, Mass 1 (4 units - 1 and a spare for each awake crewie)
~4 Air. Cost 1, mass 1 (hullbreach-backup/safety)
1 Seed Bank. 2 RU, 4 mass, 3 size
1 Hydroponics kit. Cost 7 RU, Size 6, Mass 5 (mostly for the included blueprint / expansion)
1 Ore Processor. Cost 6 RU, Size 4, Mass 5
1 Manufacturing equipment. Cost 9 RU, Size 3, Mass 4
1 Digging & drilling vehicles. Cost 2 RU, Size 4, Mass 4

38 RU, 29 Size, 33 Mass

Leftover RU; 56
Leftover Cargo-Space; 11


On another note - a "research" proposal;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elite Crew - 10? RU
We scan the available personal for the very best of the able - and stable - minded, the most healthy, those with adamant discipline - and something to loose and live for! (family...)
We will try to get enough of them as to allow for a healthy rotation and rendering of service, but will not cut any corners on their quality... (if we should be short-handed, future preferential treatment for their families will be promised - and undoubtedly kept!)
We then give them hands-on experience with the tools and programs they will use, and those that we fear that they might need to use. ([this training could be further enhanced, should time and lack of other research allow so])
We will mold them into the very best that humanity has to offer!

[10ebbor10]

Well, I'd say we need to come up with a list of priorities first, and what cargo we want. I mean, if we can't fill the cargo bay, there's little point in putting the Large one in. By downscaling the Large cargo bay and removing/replacing the biodome and removing some other components we'll have enough place left over. Also, installing a researched superstructure extension is probably going to cost something to.

I think it would be best if we first made a list of the stuff we want, so we know how much RU our cargo is going to cost.

On a side note, in both previous flights the ships launched at eleventh hour, and had no harm from the radiation. Since this ship should be significantly better protected, it should be able to take the radiation.
And the amount of construction tasks required for the fuel tanks can be reduced to 3, which puts us up for an eleventh hour launch, with time to spare.

On a side note, I'm significantly considering throwing out the automated satellite launcher. Doubt we're going to take a satellite along, and it just takes up space and energy.

[Draxis]

If the system is the same as the one used in outpost 4 the RU cost simply provides a direct bonus on the d100 used to roll research.

That's not how the research system works; basically, I decide roughly how much resources the project would take, based on its difficulty and complexity, compare that to how much you have put into it to determine roughly how hard the roll will be, and roll for it. For example, when I said it would take only about 5 RU to do the improved scanning of the destination systems, that meant that with 5 RU, the roll for success would be pretty straightforwards, maybe biased a little to success because it is an easy project. Spending less RU would likely mean less man-hours and computer time being devoted to it, so less likely to succeed; more RU would mean more of those, and maybe modifications to the scanning equipment, for a higher chance of success.

You can go ahead and build the fuel tanks all at once, but not the engines and other things; while they are more complicated than just big spheres, relative to most components they aren't that complex.  Between that and the fuel buff, you shouldn't be completely screwed on arrival.

On a side note, in both previous flights the ships launched at eleventh hour, and had no harm from the radiation. Since this ship should be significantly better protected, it should be able to take the radiation.

The eleventh-hour thing from the last games was silly; I removed it and pushed back the recommended launch time into its spot.  By getting caught in the edge of the radiation, I am referring to the

Danger of damage and/or deaths among Outpost crew

option.  While your ship will probably be somewhat better-prepared to handle it, there is still the chance of getting hit pretty badly.

I noticed that there are a lot of assumptions being made that this game will be based on Outpost 4 mechanics; I didn't like most of those changes, so it will be closer to Outpost 3, despite it being older.

[10ebbor10]

Ow, that changes things significantly. How much would the expanded superstructure thing cost in RU.

Probably means it's time to start scrapping what's unneeded. On a side note, escapedlurker's minimal cargo doesn't contain any spare parts. Pretty sure those are going to be a necessity. We might have spares of every system, but it'll still be problematic.

Spoiler: Proposed ship (Redux) (click to show/hide)

Resources: 106 RU.
Starship: unnamed, hybrid Ark-Outpost Ship
Total Size: 140 units
Structure mass: 30 units.

Installed components:
•4 Ark Cryobays.  Size 10x4, mass 15x4.  -10x4 power.
2* Expanded superstructure. Cost: 20 RU*2. Mass 15 units*2. + 30 size*2
Atmospheric flight conversion. Cost 10 RU. Mass 15 units. Size 5.
Rugged construction.  Cost 15 RU. Mass 5 units. Size 5 units.
Smart Command centre (optronic central computer /w Expert Systems) 30 RU. Size 2, Mass 2. Electricity 3 MW.
4*Electrostatic Ion Engine. 30 RU. Size 3. Mass 5. Electricity 5 MW. Thrust 7. Does not require fuel.
2*He-3 MCF Fusion generator /w external radiators. 10 RU Size 5 . Mass 6 . Generates 75 MW. Uses 1 Fuel/year.
Biodome /w hydroponics. 5 RU. Size 20. Mass 2.
Closed Loop Life Support /w hydroponics. 20  RU. Size 4 . Mass 3  Electricity 6  MW. Provides near-indefinite life support for 15  awake persons or 75 cryosleepers. Requires 1 additional person awake.
10*He-3 Fuel Tank. Cost 2 RU. Size 2  Mass 3 (including fuel). Holds 8 fuel
Cargo bay /w industrial cargo handling system. L. Cost 4 RU. Size 43. Mass  2. Allows the Outpost vessel to carry greater amount of cargo, adding 40 units of cargo space.
Cargo bay /w industrial cargo handling system.  M  Cost  2 RU. Size 22. Mass  1 . Allows the Outpost vessel to carry greater amount of cargo, adding  20 units of cargo space.

Automated Satellite Launcher. Cost 5 RU. Size 2. Mass 8.
Damage Control & machine shop. Cost 3 RU. Size 4. Mass 2. Electricity 1 MW.
Medical Bay. Cost 3 RU. Size 2. Mass 1. Electricity 1 MW
Recreational Commons. Cost 5 RU. Size 4. Mass 4 units. Electricity 1 MW
Focused Detection Array. 6 RU's. Size 1. Mass 1. Electricity 2 MW.

Total mass: 218 units.
Free space: -1 units.
Required power: 74 units.
Maximum power output: 150 units.
Total fuel: 80
Fuel remaining at destination:

Destination: System A
Flight time: unknown. (mass/thrust*5 years)

I do like the original ship more, but it simply doesn't fit. Anyway, I propose we delay the decision as long as possible. On another note, we can significantly reduce cost by going with a standard bridge instead of the high tech optronic one. Should net us 20 RU. We probably need to do that if we want to fill up our cargo bay.


How about this:

    Ship modifications: (choose up to 4)
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity. )
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity.)
        - Close loop lifesupport and hydroponics
        - Damage Control & machine shop

    Science/Engineering Project: (choose 1, say how much RU to spend)
        - Superstructure Expansion (Basically, recalculate stuff so that we can attach a third expansion, even if that weights more than the previous two) [10 RU]

    Cargo purchase: (choose any number)
        -  Nothing

Event: Mission Destination
    Choose one:
        ( ) Star A or () Star B  or () Star C 

Shouldn't waste to much resources, should give us a pretty good chance of researching it. ((Expanding the superstructure further can't be that hard right?)), and both the closed-loop lifesupport systems and the damage control thingy would've been included anyway.

[Draxis]

The research won't cost much to do, 10 RU is plenty, but it will need a pretty good roll not to mass more than the previous ones did.

[escaped lurker]

If we realy plan on spending 10 RU on that research, please let us wait for the results first, instead of building something that we are about to outdate in one turn, and which isnt needed for a few months either...

    Ship modifications: (choose up to 4)
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity. In due time...) Medical Bay
        - Expanded superstructure (This is a necessity. In due time...) Recreational Commons
        - Close loop lifesupport and hydroponics
        - Damage Control & machine shop

    Science/Engineering Project: (choose 1, say how much RU to spend)
        - Superstructure Expansion (Basically, recalculate stuff so that we can attach a third expansion, even if that weights more than the previous two) [10 RU]

    Cargo purchase: (choose any number)
        -  Nothing

Event: Mission Destination
    Choose one:
        ( ) Star A or () Star B  or () Star C 

On that note - as I place much worth on the quality and state of the crew, I would like the biodome to stay. As we seemingly will come close to 40 cargo, and will need more than 20 either way, the big bay is also fine...

But really, let us get the results for this turn - most importantly the research - and then it should be much easier and clear-cut as to what we can or can not do. As space is the one thing really limiting our options right now.


Oh my - what about my "Elite Crew" proposal/research then? 

Actually, I would consider In-flight mishaps the single biggest threat. So extensively screening and training the crew is one of our top priorities. We want people that can take the stress of the journey and keep their cool in any situation. Be it an engine bursting, getting caught in a solarflare, entering an asteroid-storm, a black - or white - hole popping up or facehuggers boarding ship. Actually, lets pack some weaponry for that case?!

[10ebbor10]

The above plan doesn't work. Installing those modules will push us over the 60% filled limit, meaning that the ship can't be expanded further. We can only fill 8 units of space before we go reach the limit. The Superstructure expansion needs to be build first. Besides, the plan is merely to research a third expansion possibility, so it shouldn't affectthe previously installed two expansions. In fact, the GM said that it would probably increase mass.

On another note, from both previous game's I've seen that this game is pretty hard-core Sci-fi. No aliens, no negative space wedgies.* In fact, I'm pretty sure that both of the previous 2 ships have seen no
So no weaponry. It's only a matter of time before someone snaps, and it's better if there isn't anything lethal around him. Besides, we can cycle people in and out of cryo as needed. Additionally, solar flares in interstellar space are unlikely, and the expanded ship is designed with almost all systems in duplicate. A single of the ship's two reactors can power the entire ship, as a matter of fact.

*The third more so than the fourth, and since the third is the main inspiration.

[Draxis]

Actually, I would consider In-flight mishaps the single biggest threat. So extensively screening and training the crew is one of our top priorities. We want people that can take the stress of the journey and keep their cool in any situation. Be it an engine bursting, getting caught in a solarflare, entering an asteroid-storm, a black - or white - hole popping up or facehuggers boarding ship.

That would be viable and quite cheap, say 5 RU, because it wouldn't take much more than the time of some officers; of course, the crew would already be pretty good, likely selected from the best of the naval fleet (such as it is), unless there is a different group you say it should be pulled from.

[10ebbor10]

On a side note, an increase in mass from the superstructure expansion isn't problematic. This ship can survive for a long time.

On a side note, we're probably going to fly for a long time as well. Optimistic calculations suggest that we'll have a flight time of about 60 years.

[escaped lurker]

@ebbor

Whoops, misinterpreted something there. Still sticking to the idea because having two better expansions would be sweet.

Medical bay - 2 Size
Smart Command Centre - 2 Size
Focused Detection Array - 1 Size
Electrostatic Ion Engine - 3 Size

8 Size - we have nothing to loose and much to gain, no?

@Draxis

For once, asking for confirmation if doing as displayed above works as I would intend.

And yes, I thought that most of those crewies would come from the military - baring maybe the odd specialist. I highlighted discipline in the flavour-text, so those would have to cope with this being a military operation of sorts, and thus should create no fraction either. As I dont know how many civs work up in space, nor their ratio towards the present military, it boils down to "whatever works best"

As for my - somewhat - jokingly mentioned weaponry inviting trouble - nah, not really. Compability-checks, team-building efforts, extensive psychological screening - if you dont go all the way on this one, where would you? Still, point taken. One unit, stacked in the deepest unreachables of the cargo might do us good in case of riots or the - granted, truly very unlikely - case of aggressive wildlife, but just putting the thought out there.