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Author Topic: Dwarven "Special" Forces  (Read 21688 times)

Ravendarksky

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 06:52:22 am »

I don't see why this just has to be used on dwarfs who fight with crutches.

Removing legs is always useful as it decreases the weight of a dwarf/how much armour they need. Also training crutch walking gives valuable attribute gains which usually result in faster moving dwarfs.

Unfortunately this will probably be less useful when the new patch is released and combat speed is no longer linked to movement speed.

I may apply this to my whole fortress of dwarfs. (We will use wooden crutches to maximize speed gains)
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MDFification

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2014, 09:59:03 am »

Dwarf Fortress: The game where you purposefully turn your dwarves into multiple amputees since they can hobble faster than they walk and beat goblins to death with heavy-metal crutches.
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Vilhelm

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2014, 03:42:05 pm »

Dwarf Fortress: The game where you purposefully turn your dwarves into multiple amputees since they can hobble faster than they walk and beat goblins to death with heavy-metal crutches.

And that is why I love this game!  :D
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TalonisWolf

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2014, 09:25:03 pm »

Hey there Urist McMigrant, just walk that way.

*points through corridor of weapon traps*

LATER...

Sorry about our... "malfuctioning" weapon traps. On an totally, utterly unrelated note, anyone who was crippled is now assigned to the military. Enjoy these Platinum Crutches that are free to all military members!
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CHR1SZ

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2014, 10:38:30 am »

Now that's proper dwarven surgery!
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It's all very epic. Jump off a tower towards a spike pit, and at the last moment attempt to parry the planet.

TalonisWolf

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2014, 02:59:47 pm »

Now that's proper dwarven surgery!

Now I have an image of some injured dwarf going through the hospital door and instantly becoming mincemeat.

Which is then cooked into Dwarf Meat Hamburgers and sent to McDorfnalds.
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itg

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2014, 03:54:31 am »

The gimps have had a couple more years of training under their belts, and at this point some of them are capable of breaking troll bones reliably. I imagine strength is the key factor. The gimps are actually a bit faster than my primary squad now, even with steel armor (the primary squad has adamantine) and the heavy platinum crutches. This proves that foot reduction surgery is genuinely worthwhile as part of a long-term supersoldier plan, not just senseless (but entertaining) cruelty.

Also, I got two more named crutches: The Tan Extrication (meh) and Temptedmurders (better).

HmH

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2014, 08:59:09 am »

The gimps are actually a bit faster than my primary squad now, even with steel armor (the primary squad has adamantine) and the heavy platinum crutches.
That's probably because crutch-walking increases Agility. It's like it used to be with fish in one of the versions before 40d: the gimps gain small amounts of experience with every step they take, so over the course of several years, they develop mad crutch-walking skills. That, in turn, ensures that their Agility and Willpower exceed those of other dwarves.

In other words, ladies and gentlemen, gimps are the spiritual successors to carp.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 09:12:39 am by HmH »
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itg

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2014, 08:19:02 pm »

Part II: A Farewell to Arms

That's right, it's time to escalate the amputations in an effort to create booze-powered kicking machines. Since dwarves don't really like to kick things, we have to remove as many alternative attack options as possible... with +large, serrated green glass discs+. Again, not a new idea, but I don't think there's anything out there like this write-up.

Since these dwarves lose the ability to grasp, they can't do most labors, so these dwarves should be condemned to honored with lifetime military service. Since I thought I might need some extra hands (hehe) for future projects, I only allowed three dwarves to join the Bearded Hitmonlees.


Mostly Armless

The surgery rig used to create the gimp squad is again the best way to liberate small body parts. But to make sure you don't liberate too much blood, it's best to do one arm at a time. First, send the dorfs in wearing full steel armor (breastplate + mail shirt) except the left gauntlet, let them heal up (make sure they're no longer "pale" or "faint"), then send them in wearing everything but the right gauntlet.

This procedure will remove the hands and lower arms from your dwarves, but it will leave the upper arms intacts--that is, "mostly armless." You may remove the upper arms, if you wish, by taking off the dwarves' mail shirts, then sending them back into surgery. Removing the upper arms takes away a possible (though infrequent) wrestling attack and a potential target for enemies (upper arms are relatively easily injured). However, the dwarves will have no way to put the mail shirts back on, leaving the throat exposed and reducing protection to the body.


Training

The Hitmonlees are unusually difficult to train. For whatever reason, it appears they cannot spar, so they do a lot of useless individual combat drills and slightly useful demonstrations. Incidentally, they have absolutely no problems leading or watching striking demonstrations. Danger rooms would not be effective either, because dwarves can't parry with their feet. Danger rooms would still train Armor User and Fighter, though. This leaves live training as the most effective option.

Since the kickers cannot use shields, dodging is twice as important as usual. Fortunately, since they can't block, they'll gain dodging experience faster.

Combat Performance

The Hitmonlees probably do about 55% kicking, 42% biting, and 3% wrestling. The kicks are generally the most effective attack, fully capable of shattering bones and skulls. Kicks seem to be closer in effectiveness to steel crutches than to platinum, frequently bruising bones instead of breaking them, and generally failing to break troll bones. To be fair, the kickers are not yet fully trained, so I may have to re-evaluate later. Kicks seem unusually likely to target small body parts, like fingers and toes. This is not necessarily a bad thing, since those bones are easier to break and still cause plenty of pain.

The bites do mainly soft tissue damage, tearing fat, muscle, nerves, and arteries. Unfortunately, once a dwarf latches on, he tends to keep shaking the same limb around long after he's done all the useful damage, wasting precious combat moves. Biting allows the kickers to bleed FBs to death when kicking is ineffective.

The wrestling moves are kind of a crapshoot. I did observe a dwarf choke out a goblin with his stump once, but I haven't seen wrestling produce any other results yet. Dwarves will often do stupid things with wrestling, like grabbing an enemy and immediately releasing it.

Spoiler: Choking out a goblin (click to show/hide)


Conclusion

Creating kicking dwarves is more work for less benefit than creating crutchdwarves. Kickers are harder to train and less effective against goblins than crutchdwarves, although they do have an edge vs. crutchdwarves against FBs, due to biting. They can't use shields, so they have to get very good at dodging to be effective. All in all, armless dwarves are mediocre soldiers, but if you happen to have a dwarf on hand who lost his arms, he's not useless, by any means.


Further Research Opportunities

It should be possible to test kicking dwarves in the arena by modding away their arms. I'm not likely to do it myself, but I would encourage anyone interested in doing a little Science to give it a try. Some possibilities:

--relative effectiveness (vs, say, warhammers, punching) against dwarves in various types of armor
--effectiveness vs different-sized unarmored enemies, hopefully finding the maximum size against which kicking is effective.
--effect of attributes on kicking effectiveness.

Ravendarksky

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2014, 05:42:53 am »

Excellent itg!

I was already considering doing this in my monk fortress. I've been trying to run a fortress where we don't rely on weapons for anything and instead focus on raising dwarven attributes as high as possible and having legendary kicking/striking/biting/wrestler dwarfs.

After the initial post I was already considering removing dwarfs arms to see if I could get my starter monk (5 teaching, 5 kicking) to teach the other dwarfs kicking more often. I am glad to see this will work equally well for my starter biting dwarf.

Stupid question but.... can a dwarf with no arms eat and drink? Also don't they generate a lot of spam cancellation messages? This was the main reason I've not done it yet :)
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itg

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2014, 06:30:03 am »

Yep, they can eat and drink just fine. They probably just stick their heads straight into the food/drink barrels. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be able to use their waterskins or backpacks, so they can't carry provisions with them.

I haven't had a single instance of cancellation spam yet, probably because active/training soldiers never try to clean themselves. I'd be wary of letting them out of the military, but it's not like you'd ever want to, anyway.

Ravendarksky

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2014, 07:35:31 am »

Yep, they can eat and drink just fine. They probably just stick their heads straight into the food/drink barrels. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be able to use their waterskins or backpacks, so they can't carry provisions with them.

I haven't had a single instance of cancellation spam yet, probably because active/training soldiers never try to clean themselves. I'd be wary of letting them out of the military, but it's not like you'd ever want to, anyway.

If they can eat and drink without limbs then I will probably make my biter monk (5 teaching, 5 biting) a quadriplegic. His dining room and bed are right next to the training barracks so I'm not worried about him being slow. Hopefully it would speed up his teaching by making him focus on demonstrations.

I wish I had more time to play right now :(.
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itg

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2014, 06:02:04 pm »

I'd love to hear how this turns out. Do keep in mind that a dwarf without limbs has absolutely no qualms about demonstrating a skill that requires limbs. However, cutting off his arms and legs, then levelling up his biting through live training should keep his striking and kicking skills relatively low enough that he doesn't try to demonstrate them much.

4 more named crutches, by the way: Shortnotched the Indigo Bandits, Clashloved, The Tender Responsibility, and Rimconfine the Lure of Shrieks.

ShadowHammer

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2014, 09:45:15 pm »

Part II: A Farewell to Arms
:P
I almost died laughing when I saw this.
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itg

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Re: Dwarven "Special" Forces
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2014, 01:14:06 am »

Part II: A Farewell to Arms
:P
I almost died laughing when I saw this.

Hehe, half the reason I did this experiment was to have an excuse to make that joke. For my dwarves' sake, better hope I don't come up with another.
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