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[Dermonster]

I support any option that lets me live longer and others less so at any given moment, and oppose them immediately when it becomes detrimental to my well being.

[Unholy_Pariah]

Im for no aiming penalties at the limbs and torso, you should be able to choose where to shank someone as it opens up a lot of strategic options.

[syvarris]

I really think allowing people to target melee attacks for free makes sense.  As it is, just punching/kicking someone to death is very difficult- you need a weapon.  This is realistic*, but not good for balance; To get a weapon, magic has to advance at least to the point of material knowledge, and form knowledge.  But by the time that happens, mages have an advantage over melee chars, because they have lethal attacks.

Their attacks risk damaging themselves, but they can get lucky and survive to get a point.  Melee chars... really can't.  Unless they bull rush people off the ledge, I guess.  But then mages can easily attack without as much risk of self-damage, so... yeah.


*In reality, it's hard to kill someone without choking/wrestling them.  Also hard on your body.  As a person who has been doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for two years now, it is frighteningly easy to break joints and choke someone out, assuming you know what you're doing.

Also, wrestling is way, way more dex based than strength.  Seriously, I'm really small, like 110 pounds, and only somewhat athletic.  I've been training for only two years.  My instructor likes to use me to break the pride of pompous new white belts- he puts me with the really muscular 200 lb men who are just there to show how badass they are.

It never goes well for them.  I usually leave them gasping for breath after just twenty minutes, and am barely winded myself.

But I think wrestling should be str based in-game, just to balance dex a little bit.  It's really OP.  Seriously, my dex char survived being attacked by four different people on a few different occasions.  Honestly, I don't know what you/Toaster were thinking when you moved dodging from spd to dex.  Spd was overpowered in the original, just for the dodging.  And then you effectively buffed it by letting you aim attacks too.

[Elephant Parade]

I support aimed attacks, though I probably won't be using them.

[Rolepgeek]

Well, if someone who was really muscular and 200 pounds had been training for two years, do you think you could beat them easily?

[syvarris]

Nope!  There's people there that fit that descriptor, and I usually can't take them.

But that's sort of an unfair comparison, considering they now have equal training to me and vastly more strength.  I'm smaller, but "dexterity" is less based on size and more training, at least if we're going by the idea that it's dictating how likely stuff is to hit. 

Point is, strength does have an effect.  It's just vastly overshadowed by skill, especially with wrestling where technique can effectively multiply strength.


...Also, reviewing my previous post, that sorta shifted more towards bragging than I intended.  Whoops.  It'd be more prudent to point out a lot of gyms have someone like that- a small, weak person, who they put with the strong newbies both to take them down a notch and demonstrate how much the martial art actually helps.

[Toaster]

I'll let you be the judge for aimed attacks.  It could go either way.  Maybe if you specify "arms" or "legs" there's no penalty, but "left arm" or "right leg" yeah, because it's less of a target.  Chest is a larger target so aiming for it isn't that hard.  Headshots make sense being hard.

Honestly, I don't know what you/Toaster were thinking when you moved dodging from spd to dex.  Spd was overpowered in the original, just for the dodging.

Funny thing?  I had it written down to be speed for dodging, then completely forgot and did dex.  By the time I realized that, I just ran with it.

[Bigf00t]

I'm cool with whatever, I do get pretty bummed when my str=1 roll's leave me embarrassing myself

Last turn, I couldn't loosen the grip of someone who was mostly paralyzed and holding on to a stone bridge, but I could drag someone to safety? I'm cool with more lethality! (Although, how I've even survived up until this point... confuses me. How the *bleep* did I survive Zentol? And all my science? Barely, but I did... somehow.)

[Tomcost]

I really think allowing people to target melee attacks for free makes sense.  As it is, just punching/kicking someone to death is very difficult

For that very reason I'm increasing the duration fo the the pain system.

To get a weapon, magic has to advance at least to the point of material knowledge, and form knowledge.  But by the time that happens, mages have an advantage over melee chars, because they have lethal attacks.

The advantage they have is some felxibility in their attacks. Not every mage should be able to cast every spell. For example, Unholy's character is ill-suited to do lightning attacks.
Also, basic melee weapons can be obtained fairly easily.

Their attacks risk damaging themselves, but they can get lucky and survive to get a point.  Melee chars... really can't.  Unless they bull rush people off the ledge, I guess.  But then mages can easily attack without as much risk of self-damage, so... yeah.

There is the risk of them even dying in the proces if they get a one. Again, Unholy just survived because Romek rolled a 1 and absorbed some of the electricity.
Also, to be a competent mage, you have to have 2 prequisite stats (Pot and Pool) and then some kind of stat that allows you to hit people. It doesn't leave many points to spend on endurance, so you can punch them until they pass out.

*In reality, it's hard to kill someone without choking/wrestling them.  Also hard on your body.  As a person who has been doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for two years now, it is frighteningly easy to break joints and choke someone out, assuming you know what you're doing.

As a person who practices Taekwon-Do, I know that this is true. That's why the unarmed combat is all about making the other people faint from pain, or becom utterly unable to move.

Also, wrestling is way, way more dex based than strength.

Yes, I just wanted to give the strength based characters a mechanic that suits them better.

But I think wrestling should be str based in-game, just to balance dex a little bit.  It's really OP.  Seriously, my dex char survived being attacked by four different people on a few different occasions.  Honestly, I don't know what you/Toaster were thinking when you moved dodging from spd to dex.  Spd was overpowered in the original, just for the dodging.  And then you effectively buffed it by letting you aim attacks too.

I actually overreacted a lot when you killed Unholy. I thought that you were going to break the game. It didn't happen because everyone thought the same thing and decided to kill you. But, yes, the reason why dex is more important than strength when it comes to combat is because it increases the chances of hitting and decreases a lot chances of counterattacks. You character was not strong, but he could do constant damage, and had the occassional possibility of applying the highest pnealty/killing. The DK has a 1 out of 3 possibility of applying it, but to do that he has to hit first. I don't know to which extent is it balanced. Yeah, Zetol couldn't afford to get hit, and the DK could endure even the highest pain penalty (unless there was insistence in the limb), but, was it really balanced? So far my tests are saying no, but, what could be done? Making ties go to the attacker? That increases slightly the possibilities of hitting, but for both combatants. Even with unavoidable spells, it may not be enough. Well, if Derm hadn't rolled that one with his electricity spell he would have probably paralyzed you, and that would have made your life really hard, as you needed to constantly increase the pain meter.

On a side note, nobody discovered Will attacks yet. That would have been a real pain for you.

But Zentol also made me realize some things. Dexterity was going to be used to calculate damage from  slashing weapons originally, but I didn't do it because a character would have both damage and hitting almost guaranteed that way.

Nope!  There's people there that fit that descriptor, and I usually can't take them.

On a side note, it happens to me exactly the same thing as you. Once both are trained, the other person reamins with the strenth/wheight advantage, while both of you are equally dexterous.

Last turn, I couldn't loosen the grip of someone who was mostly paralyzed and holding on to a stone bridge, but I could drag someone to safety? I'm cool with more lethality! (Although, how I've even survived up until this point... confuses me. How the *bleep* did I survive Zentol? And all my science? Barely, but I did... somehow.)

Funny thing, strength actually has some uses when it comes to hitting someone hard enought to release the only thing that presumably is the cause of him beign still alive.


Anyway, thanks everybody for your cooperation. The balance change will be applied on turn 21 and will be as follows:

-Increased by 1 turn the duration of most endurance-based debuffs (those who require an endurance check to determine if a malus is applied or not)
-Removed penalty for targeting limbs, excluding the head.
-Increased torso health by 33%. This means that to chop someone in half you will need to roll a strength of 8. [Profuse pain] is going to be applied to strength 6 and 7 attacks, but it is cumulative, as well as its bleeding (and burns) counterpart. This means that repeated attacks will get to the old [Heavy pain], and the -1 end penalty will still apply. Blunt weapons will cause important organ failure if they roll the 8. Otherwise, they cause pain (I hope you to break limbs and crush the head, not the torso, as it a tad complicated to do anything other than breaking ribs).
-Blunt attacks to the head will cause [Dizziness] instead of pain. Dizziness will last for one turn, but will be created when anything other than a 1 or a 6 as damage are applied. Burns still cause a penalty to Pot. 6 strength attacks still cause [Unconcious], and when the player wakes up he will be Dizzy.

EDIT:
-Equal dexterity rolls in wrestling will prompt an opposed strength check annyway.  IF the attacker loses by 1 or two, strength will still be rolled, but at a -1 or -2 penalty for the attacker, respectively.

[darkpaladin109]

Climb up.

[Tomcost]

Turn 020

Stupid dragon knight, why are you so useless?
And why does biting my tongue cause me to have a "random chance to...prevent limb usage"? It doesn't make sense!

Kick a wall in frustration. If still alive and conscious, head to the Portal Room and slump against a wall sadly.

... I didn't send the fire thing though?

Edit: Oh, you considered my 'Once more' as to repeat the same action. My bad, I think.

Well, lets try another thing then.

((If romek rolls a 1 on his cliffhanger recovery do i get the kill?))

do things.

I TRANSMUTE THEE TO A SQUID.

Slightly perkier scientist gets ready to try something ELSE. Hmm. No-one is in danger, yet, bar Romek, he's pretty [CENSORED] right now. But not from me.

"Where you going!"

Magical mystery fun!

Climb up.

Massive speed rolling!

[DK spd:3]
[Derm spd:3]
[Outcast spd:3-2=1]
[Flimsy spd:1-1=0]
[Bigf01t spd:4-1-1=2]
[Thrakor spd:3-1=2]
[Romek spd:2-2=0]
[Eric spd:3]

Derm pokes his head and sees Romek there, hanging from the cliff. Ha! An easy victim! He prepares to cast his spell, and then he sees the Dragon Knight walking with a sad face there. He feels pity for a moment, and thus he lets him go through the bridge.
The Dragon Knight just proceeds to get into the Portal Room and lean against a wall. The sadness of his face, caused by his rush of bad luck, could make even Zentol feel bad for him. Well, not Zentol, but someone with a little bit of humanity would feel bad for him.

Anyway, what was going to do Derm? Oh, right:

[Derm pot:2+1=3]
[Romek dex:2-2+1=1]

Derm looks a the portion fo the bridge the bearded individual was holding and says his words. The portion of it that was supporting Romek's weight begins to glow, and suddenly turns to electricity. Yeah, electrons in movement and all that stuff. Romek's hands just go through it as gravity begins to carry him to his demise, the electricity managing to make his fingertips go numb.

As he fell, he shouted:

"Zanos lar rash, amur uthgúr stingbol!!

And he fell for a long time indeed. He could think about what he had done wrong. Maybe it was not killing those who were an easy prey, like the Dragon Knight and Thrakor. Maybe. After some time he actually begun to feel curious about what was at the end of his fall, as he could feel like if gravity was growing stronger for some reason.
He never could realize what it was, as he just ceased to exist.

Romek died. Derm gains a point

At exactly the same time, Eric rushed to Thrakor's position and shouted words at him!

[Eric pot:3-1=2]
But just a little line forms in front of him, which jumps after Thrakor. He is not impressed.

Bigf01t, meanwhile, tries to evoke again his diamond morningstar:

[Pot:5+1=6]
And he gets one that is exactly the same as the one he lost!

-Diamond morningstar:
[Blunt weapon]
[Heavy]
[Two-handed]
[Minor piercing]

The Outcast Wizard just concentrates on becoming more agile. He is sure that the numbness on his body should end soon.

Back into the fight over a bridge, Thrakor decides to hit Eric with yet another magma blast:

[Thrakor pot:5]
[Thrakor dex:6+1=7]
[Eric dex:5-1=4]

And so a burst of flame erupted from Thrakor's hand and flew in Eric's direction, who was hit in his left leg, producing even more burns, like if he hadn't enough.

[Burned]

A line of white smoke comes from the abyss and enters Derm's chest. The Flimsy Wizard frowns at him, because he had better plans with that victim!

PM words

I AM ALIVE. And I have created life, despite the fact that it is just some boring pigs! I need to know more magic. MORE.

[Pot:2+1=3]
A bit of water appears in front of you.

[Pot:5+1=6]
A thick golden line appears and draws a cage out of itself before disappearing.

[Pot:4+1=5]
A pile of wax appears in front of you. Some of it gets wet because of the water.

[Pot:6+1=7]
Another thick golden line appears, this time drawing a chest.

[Pot:6+1=7]
Now a pile of coal appears in front of you. The amount of garbage in this room is getting slightly high.

You try to see if someon is coming. No, nobody. This means even more science!

[Pot:5+1=6]
[End:1-1=0]

AAAAAA, my eyes! What the hell was that flash of light! Dammit!

[Totally blinded]

Your temporary blindness doesn't allow you to see what is happening, but you hear some rock...moving? And you are beginning to hear also some moans. What was that? oh, yes one of the sparks from the beams. And the sound that came afterwards must have been the pigs screaming from it. Either that or someone is breaking your pile of wood. But you didn't hear anybody entering the room. Or maybe you were so focused on your sight that you didn't pay attention. The sorrows are getting joined by sharp screams from time to time. Shit, they are making you get nervous. The frequency of the sharp screams is intensifying, and the moans are getting progressively louder. Oh my God, what the hell is happening here!

Meanwhile, the fight between the elf and the Dwarf continue:

[Dwarf spd:6-1=5]
[Elf spd:3 +1=3]

The dwarf tries to hit the elf with his hammer, like, really hard:

[Dwarf dex:1-1-1=-1]
[Elf dex:3+1=4]

But he is too slow and predictable for the Elf, who strikes back with his claws:

[Elf dex:2+1=3]
[Dwarf dex:6-1=5]

But the Dwarf by this time is used to this thing. He back away before the Elf can do anything, but the tall humanoid still charges anyway:

[Elf dex:1+1=2]
[Dwarf dex:5-1=4]

The dwarf just keeps going backwards, which proves enough to get away from the Elf's reach.

Status effects update:
-Eric's minor burns are gone.

Character sheets

Spoiler: Elephant Parade (click to show/hide)

Name:Flimsy Wizard
Appearance:A frail-looking man in generic wizard robes.
Stats:
Str:0
Dex:0
Spd:0
Wil:0
End:0
Pot:6
Pol:3
Status effects:
-Left arm:
[Burned]
-Right arm:
[Burned]
-Torso:
[Burned]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location:Bridge. West entrance.

Spoiler: Dermonster (click to show/hide)

Name:Derm
Appearance:I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Stats:+3
Str:1
Dex:1
Spd:1
Wil:0
End:1
Pot:2
Pol:5 (2)
Status effects:
Transformation status:
-Missing left foot!
-1 to dodging and similar acrobatic actions. You can still stand over the stump, though.
Inventory:
Location:Bridge. West entrance.

Spoiler: Bigf00t (click to show/hide)

Name: Bigf01t
Appearance: Generic science dude with a white robe resembling a lab coat.
Stats:
Str:0
Dex:1
Spd:0
Wil:1
End:1
Pot:3
Pol:3
Status effects:
[Coughing]
-Left leg
[Burned]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
-Chitin armplate on right arm:
[Smooth surface]
-Cloth rags: Will not make a tag for this, you know their uses.
-Paper: you know the drill
-Diamond morningstar:
[Blunt weapon]
[Heavy]
[Two-handed]
[Minor piercing]
Location:Portal Room. East entrance.

Spoiler: Toaster (click to show/hide)

Name:Thrakor
Appearance: A short guy with an attitude problem.  Has a scraggly beard he should probably shave, unremarkable brown eyes, and receding hair that's going grey early.  A bit slender.
Stats:
Str:0
Dex:2
Spd:2
Wil:0
End:1
Pot:2
Pol:2 (1)
Status effects:
-Left leg:
[Burned]
[Bleeding I]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
-Improvised black bio-metal hat:
[Soft]
Does not work with most aimed attacks.
-Improvised bone club:
[Blunt weapon]
Location:Bridge. Center.

Spoiler: Rolepgeek (click to show/hide)

Name: Jenn, Eric
Appearance: Dark hair, indistinguishable ethnicity, trousers and a tunic. His plainness is, in fact, the strangest thing about him; just how ordinary he is, and his face that always seems familiar.
Stats:
Str:1
Dex:1
Spd:1
Wil:1
End:1
Pot:1
Pol:3 (1)
Status effects:
-Left leg:
[Burned]
-Left arm:
[Bleeding I]
[Burned]
-Head:
[Burned]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location: Bridge. West entrance.

Spoiler: Icefire2314 (click to show/hide)

Name: Baldr Sciathan
Appearance: Pale skinned man of Norse-Celtic descent, has light hair and blue-green eyes, stands at about 5'11" and 170lbs.
Stats:
Str: 0
Dex: 0
Spd: 0
Wil: 0
End: 0
Pot: 3
Pol: 6
Status effects:
[Totally blinded]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
-Sturdy stick:
[Blunt weapon]
Location: Arcane Room. Center.

Spoiler: GreatWyrmGold (click to show/hide)

Name:Dragon Knight
Appearance:"Who calls the Dragon Knight?"
Stats:
Str:3
Dex:1
Spd:1
Wil:0
End:3
Pot:0
Pol:1
Status effects:
-Head:
[Heavy pain]
-Left leg:
[Bleeding I]
[Burned]
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location:Portal Room. East entrance.

Spoiler: Unholy_Pariah. (click to show/hide)

Name: Outcast Wizard
Appearance: A tall angry looking guy with arcane symbols tattooed across his right hand and forearm.
Stats:
Str:2
Dex:2
Spd:0
Wil:0
End:0
Pot:3
Pol:2
Status effects:
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location:Portal Room. East entrance.

GM comments

Happy turn 20!

Also, DK's headache will totaly disappear in the next update, with the balance change (the dizzyness turn should have been this one)

[Dermonster]

Bring dex up to 2. Awww yeah.

Beholdeth!

[darkpaladin109]

Screw you Derm and EP, you totally deserved all those times you were screwed over.
Anyway, here's my new sheet.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: Cabbadath
Appearance: A tall, thin man wearing a long, red coat with tails that reach to the floor. His face is blank and featureless (aka the picture I  have as my avatar).
Stats:
Str: 2
Dex: 2
Spd: 2
Wil: 0
End: 0
Pot: 1
Pol: 2
Status effects:
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location:

Also, why are all my characters dying now?

[Tomcost]

Screw you Derm and EP, you totally deserved all those times you were screwed over.
Anyway, here's my new sheet.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: Cabbadath
Appearance: A tall, thin man wearing a long, red coat with tails that reach to the floor. His face is blank and featureless (aka the picture I  have as my avatar).
Stats:
Str: 2
Dex: 2
Spd: 2
Wil: 0
End: 0
Pot: 1
Pol: 2
Status effects:
Transformation status:
Inventory:
Location:

Also, why are all my characters dying now?

A day of bad luck? Sometimes it happens. We al hate when that happens.

Also, adding...

[Toaster]

[Thrakor spd:3-1=1]