Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[crazysheep]

Weapons and EP are usually what get you over the line and into T10 :3

[Shadowlord]

There was actually a glitch with SMG's that gave them 100% accuracy with tapfire, they fixed this.

"glitch"

Yeah, that was never a glitch, it was intended behavior to have first-shot accuracy.  The biggest problem with SMG is their cone of fire isn't large enough, and their damage falloff isn't steep enough.  They do nearly max damage even at max range, and the cone of fire in the first ~6 shots is still accurate enough that half the shots hit.  So there's no penalty to shotgunning at fliers, which should NEVER happen.

I personally think they just need to get rid of SMGs and replace them with clustered shotguns.

Are you suggesting that there should be no counter for people sniping or bombaring from up in the sky at low tech levels when you don't have the railgun? Right now at least you can try to shoot them with your "SMGs" and slowly damage them, if they aren't covered with electroplates or something.

(I'm at tier 3 and there are people sniping from sky-high with helium and railguns or plasmas. I don't know if that's actually effective or not, the railgunners always seem to miss, so far as I've noticed. The plasmas may be more effective, but there's a long delay before they hit where they were aimed.)

[crazysheep]

"everything is so broken it's balanced" seems to be the consensus of how things work in this game though, lol :p

[Sergarr]

"everything is so broken it's balanced" seems to be the consensus of how things work in this game though, lol :p

Except for collision mechanics. Those are just atrocious.

[crazysheep]

Yeah. I try not to crash into other bots or the terrain as much as possible..

[GrizzlyAdamz]

snip

snip

Yeah, that was never a glitch, it was intended behavior to have first-shot accuracy.  The biggest problem with SMG is their cone of fire isn't large enough, and their damage falloff isn't steep enough.  They do nearly max damage even at max range, and the cone of fire in the first ~6 shots is still accurate enough that half the shots hit.  So there's no penalty to shotgunning at fliers, which should NEVER happen.

I personally think they just need to get rid of SMGs and replace them with clustered shotguns.

Are you suggesting that there should be no counter for people sniping or bombaring from up in the sky at low tech levels when you don't have the railgun? Right now at least you can try to shoot them with your "SMGs" and slowly damage them, if they aren't covered with electroplates or something.

(I'm at tier 3 and there are people sniping from sky-high with helium and railguns or plasmas. I don't know if that's actually effective or not, the railgunners always seem to miss, so far as I've noticed. The plasmas may be more effective, but there's a long delay before they hit where they were aimed.)

Problem is they're too much of a counter- they're as effective if not better than railguns for AA, both close & long-range, and this bleeds through into sniping ground troops as well.
It's fine to make it a last-ditch defense, so SMG troops aren't as defenseless as plasma, (though this is technically an arbitrary distinction, 'you don't have railguns or SMGs you're fucked' vs 'you don't have railguns you're fucked'), but as it is it's an omni-weapon.

Plasma- Good at long-range, very good at short-range, very bad for fliers, weak against hovers & jumpers - AOE, fire n forget, but their saving grace is travel-time & drop-off

Railgun- Very good at long-range, very bad at short-range, good against fliers - Currently bugged, must be still, can't track quickly, tracking decreases accuracy, firing decreases accuracy, laser-pointer, reload

SMG- Very good at long-range, Good at short-range, Great against fliers - hitscan, no overheat, tap-firing

Not so much an accuracy penalty, but drastically increasing the damage falloff sounds nice to my vindictive side, after what the last railgun nerf did.

[LoSboccacc]

flyers currently don't really have any counter at T10 beside all team noticing and focusing on it. and good luck with that while other things wants you dead.

and now they can just land for repair.


there was this flying plasma with a flying medic platoon, basically inarrestable. for as fast you can repair team mates, ythey can damage it faster and win by attrition.

[TheDarkStar]

flyers currently don't really have any counter at T10 beside all team noticing and focusing on it. and good luck with that while other things wants you dead.

and now they can just land for repair.


there was this flying plasma with a flying medic platoon, basically inarrestable. for as fast you can repair team mates, ythey can damage it faster and win by attrition.

Snipers can hit fliers just fine.

[Shadowlord]

Plasma- Good at long-range, very good at short-range, very bad for fliers, weak against hovers & jumpers - AOE, fire n forget, but their saving grace is travel-time & drop-off

Railgun- Very good at long-range, very bad at short-range, good against fliers - Currently bugged, must be still, can't track quickly, tracking decreases accuracy, firing decreases accuracy, laser-pointer, reload

SMG- Very good at long-range, Good at short-range, Great against fliers - hitscan, no overheat, tap-firing

Not so much an accuracy penalty, but drastically increasing the damage falloff sounds nice to my vindictive side, after what the last railgun nerf did.

I wouldn't say that SMGs are very good at long range, as it takes forever to tap-fire someone to death (at least in tier 3). Meanwhile if they have plasmas they can get you in one hit if they manage to actually hit you (which happens eventually).

When I was using plasmas, if I met someone up close, I'd fire once, miss, and die before I could fire again, or if I was lucky I'd hit and do minimal damage, and then die before I could fire again. Rarely I'd actually kill someone with a close-range hit, but it was always someone who was already heavily damaged or had little or no armor. Against hovers at medium/long range, on the other hand, I had no more trouble hitting them than hitting a tank (but didn't do a whole lot of damage).

I don't really know why the other people in tier 3 were capable of instakilling me with plasmas at long range while I could only do, say, 5-15% damage to them with 5 of the first plasma launchers. Of course it's entirely possible they're using higher-tier plasmas.

I don't have railguns, but the only time anyone has actually hit me with a railgun that I know of was someone in a rail tank at close range. I drove up and started shooting, and he fired a snap-shot that blew off half my tank. The ones at long range never managed to hit since I just avoided being where they were aiming. Of course in this case I know he wasn't using tier 3 equipment, since railguns aren't even anywhere close to unlockable in tier 3 (not that that stops anyone from using them there).

[TheDarkStar]

Plasma does more damage with range iirc.

[Carnwennan]

I used to use a plasma bomber/ satellite (I felt a little dirty using the gun, so I usually swooped around spotting things for my team). When I did shoot though, I used to be able to do 7,000-10,000 damage per shot at TL5 (one on-tier plasma cannon) if I managed to hit centre mass simply because of how high I was.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Spoiler: Wall of text (click to show/hide)

SMGs are very good at range because they are hitscan, same as rails, whereas plasma requires judging drop-off and the target can use the projectiles' travel time to evade.
There is no evading an SMG round or rail-shot if the gunner is on-target.
Railguns have higher burst than SMG, each shot worth 5 SMG rounds & excess damage propagated to nearby blocks.
Assuming both the gunner & the target are still, it takes ~2 seconds to fire a second round at a long-range target.

Meanwhile SMGs can tapfire every ~.6s, (~33% less dps than ideal rail conditions). The lack of damage propagation makes them much better at taking out large components rather than armor, and the lack of a dedicated scope & true 100% accuracy combine to make SMGs unable to target specific weak points or components at max range.

But they have no cooldown, & they do not suffer from tracking accuracy penalties.
That means they can put infinite sustained fire on a highly mobile target at max range.
Railgunners cannot take shots without heavy punishment, & plasma peek-n-shoots still take a handful of hits each time they lob a volley, (at max range, mind). Spotted fliers are run along a perpetual cheese-grater at all ranges.


My experience disagrees with yours- so long as they're on-tier or one above they don't take (relatively) long to maim/kill things at all, especially when they're firing from or near the fog. But maybe there's some chicanery going on in lower-tiers.

Yeah, you can assume they're using higher-tier weapons, and higher-tier weaponry makes more of a difference the lower in tier you go. T3-T4 plasma is a 76% increase, while T7-T8 is a 38%. Not to mention increased splash radius & its effect on total damage.
Keep in mind severed parts count towards damage numbers.

Same deal with rails, over-tiered weaponry is paramount. If he only had one it was probably a t6/7, 2-3x as powerful as a t4.

Hovers only have a real benefit when hovering at max height, and are most convenient vs bombers.

[Rex_Nex]

I've only played up to T6, but plasma shits all over everything else. Quite literally. Annoyingly they are several orders of magnitude more common than everything else, save the odd medic.

[TolyK]

Played a match where there were around 55% medics.
Needless to say, it did not end very well. :p

[Rex_Nex]

One thing I keep seeing are platoons that spend several minutes just feeding their medic healing by driving to a designated spot every time they get damaged. I cant imagine how crazy the scores they must get for that is, but it is pretty lame to see half a team hide in a corner for half the match.