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[Persus13]

I think alignment flips matter because they're useful as confirmation of suspicions. I think a Ghost Mafia game would be more fun in a power heavy setup than vanilla, because then you have mechanical means to make up for the lack of alignment flips.

What I would be interested to see is if the D3 burnout would still happen in a game where everyone can post, and whether the ability to post would be enough for dead players to continue participating.

[notquitethere]

While I was in the shower earlier I was thinking up different variants on this. Here's a variety which has both powered and vanilla elements: neither role madness, nor pure mountainous:

Angry Ghosts (9+ players)

Two players begin the game dead, as Ghosts. One is an Angry Ghost, one is a Friendly Ghost. Their alignment is not public knowledge. Everyone else is a Medium. A certain number are aligned to the Angry Ghosts as Evil Mediums. Mediums who are killed become Ghosts, with Evil Mediums becoming Angry Ghosts.

Ghosts can communicate with everyone in the main thread, even though they're dead. They cannot vote, but the Friendly Ghosts will want to help the Good Mediums lynch all the Evil Mediums and vice versa. Angry Ghosts and their Evil Mediums will have a shared chat for scheming, but only Angry Ghosts perform the kills. Friendly Ghosts don't start with any hidden information, though the first one will know that the other starting Ghost is Angry (they are likely to begin the game both accusing one another).

Living players don't have any actions or any factional kill, but Ghosts do. Every Angry Ghost has a two-shot kill. Every Friendly Ghost has a one-shot protect and a one-shot track. Only one action can be performed per night. There are no alignment flips.

As in regular mafia: the good Mediums win when all the evil Mediums are dead and at least one good Medium is alive (to perform the banishment ritual); the Angry Ghosts win when everyone is an Angry Ghost (or, in game terms, when living evil mediums outnumber living good mediums).

[Superdorf]

Intriguing. What would the win/loss ratio on that be?

[Shakerag]

Sounds like an interesting setup to me.  I'd be curious to watch a game of that.

[notquitethere]

Intriguing. What would the win/loss ratio on that be?

The ghost powers should balance out with the kills. Let's imagine 10 players, starting with 1 angry ghost and 2 evil mediums (three scum in total must be necessary, now I think of it, as otherwise game could end on D1). Let's play out the scenarios:

Scenario A:
D1 - town lynch town - 7 left alive
N1 - angry ghost kills one player. Two good ghosts fail to protect. - 6 left alive
D2 - town lynch scum - 5 left alive.
N2 - angry ghosts kill two players. One ghost fails to protect. Tracking ghosts clear each other. 3 left alive
D3 lylo

Scenario B:
D1 - town lynch scum - 7 left alive
N1 - both angry ghosts kill, but one kill is protected by starting ghost - 6 left alive
D2 - town lynch town - 5 left alive
N2 - both angry ghosts kill, one is successfully tracked by friendly ghost - 3 left alive
D3 lylo

Scenario C
D1 - town lynch town - 7 left alive
N1 - angry ghost kills town, both friendly ghosts track each other - 6 left alive
D2 - town lynch town - 5 left alive
N2 - angry ghost kills town, friendly ghosts fail to protect - 4 left alive
D3 - draw in voting- possibly stalemate depending on the draw mechanics

Scenario D
D1 - town lynch town - 7 left alive
N1 - angry ghost's kill is protected - 7 left alive
D2 - town lynch town - 6 left alive
N2 - angry ghost's kill is protected - 6 left alive
D3 - town kill town - 5 left alive
N3 - angry ghost is out of kills - two of the other four ghosts track each other - 5 left alive
D4 - MYLO - town kill scum - 4 left alive
N4 - angry ghost's kill is protected - 4 left alive
D5 - town kill town - 3 left alive
N5 - angry ghost's kill is protected - 3 left alive
D6 - lylo

Reflections:
- having limited kills can end the game in stalemate, which could be written up as a win for scum.
- the ghost's tracking power would help clear other ghosts- you could get a core of town-friendly ghosts who could then co-ordinate their protects.
- multiple scum kills should be balanced against multiple town protects

[KitRougard]

I found the Timespiral format recently, and as a loud and proud MTG player I kinda wanna see one go down.

[pisskop]

Real quick now:

Am I nuts to think this isnt balanced?

1 cop - sends results to the enabler, doesnt get results themselves
1 cop enabler
1 1shot citizen/wolf detector
1 two-shot tracker
4 citizen

1 roleblocker
1 wolf
1 Nerfed wolf - the first day that a scum is lynched, he cannot perform the nightkill that night

Im trying to be polite and say its not balanced but the hint is just not being caught.  I even brought in a second opinion and they havent been able to avail.

[dolores]

Is there a N0?

[pisskop]

No

[dolores]

Power roles can claim D1 and force wolves to either counterclaim or not and exist in a pool of 3/7 players either way, with detection abilities shooting into that. Mixed approaches single out wolves for individual scrutiny.
If a wolf is lynched D1 wolves can only kill/block one PR regardless of which it was. Three detection power roles active if none die D1.
If a town PR is lynched it reveals one scum.
2/3 wolves are acting every night (trackable). 2 cops and a tracker shooting into this.
Two mislynches (regardless of order of wolf killing), 3 scum.

I'd say it's townsided in a big way.

e: Wolves get two actions if nerfed wolf lynched D1
Still super pro-town, especially considering it's a 'scum lynched D1' beginning and it doesn't change the number of MLs

[pisskop]

I appreciate the breakdown.  he isnt interested.  I dont think i can sign off on this if he doesnt explicitly advert unbalance.

[Superdorf]

Can you just drop out or replace?

[dolores]

Recently received some inspiration for a format:

• no mislynches, game starts on lylo/mylo, no no-lynch (KotM rules)
• 72hr dayphase,  no nightphase
• scum indicate to mod what player they want to kill in QT and most recently nominated player flips at the same time as the lynch
• game ends on first mislynch, scum and all NK'd town win. All town (alive and dead) win if all scum are lynched.

If I'm modding I'd be freezing time over weekends since I usually spend that with family these days.
If a player is mislynched and NK'd at the same time they still win.
Please tell me why this is a terrible idea.

If there are inactive player(s) town/scum can quickhammer and start the 'next game' in <24hrs with all remaining players + any new if it's a mislynch so a persistently inactive player on D1 can just make the game end and restart in <48hr instead of costing everyone a 96x3hr game like they normally do hopefully.

[Demonic Spoon]

We've been recently doing quick games of Blood on Clocktower on discord! Great fun but it only really shines at 7+ players, which we have trouble hitting consistently. Usually we play saturdays around 2-3 pm EST if I recall my timezones correctly, but stoirtap, the storyteller, seems willing to run more if more players were available at other times.

https://discord.gg/B7ANhME
channel name:
#clockwork-blood-oranges

[RoseHeart]

I know atleast 1 other mafia player I in my last session agreed with me that the rate of play can be a lot to manage, and adjust to if that is even possible.

I'd be interested in a mafia with posting restrictions. Such as you must wait an hour before posting again, and possibly limiting things like skipping a phase until everyone has posted.