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[FallacyofUrist]

Does the Dreadlord have to be alive to win?

[Jack A T]

NQT: A few semi-scattered thoughts on CYOMagic:

This is going to be pretty painful for the mafia early on, and I doubt there will be many scumkills for the first few nights.

The average townie, being unable to coordinate power selection, will probably pick from the two strongly town-oriented schools: Good and Truth.  Evil L1 is a dud for town (Wound's scumteam only, pretty much, and Delay's quite a niche power), likely pushing townies away from it, and Lies is mostly disruption-focused.  Could see a few townies going Lies and/or Evil, but not many.  What that means is that there will be a ton of people with the low-level Good and Truth powers right from the start of the game, and they're good to great powers, especially en masse.  Several protects (counter any evil spell?  Nice, particularly with many protects floating around), tons of tracks, tons of watches (you're starting Truth with mid-high-power investigative powers), and, if newly acquired spells can be used when acquired, a cluster of Spell-Seeks searching for Evil and Lies spells.

It is almost suicidal for scum to try to kill in this scenario, at least for the first couple nights.  As informed as they are, they are still stuck struggling in a giant net of strong counters against scumkilling right from the start, and killing via Wound is a great way to maximize the chance of failing or getting caught.  Disruption through Delay and Lies helps against a few irritating townies, but just about every townie will be dangerous.  A game full of trackers and watchers is not a great game for the scum.

Wound I see almost no use for outside of the scumteam, needing coordination to be effective, and with Spell-Seek being available almost immediately, why even take it as scum?

I'll be honest: I don't see much correlation between power strength and power level in the setup, except for in Evil.  Truth, for instance, has an excellent L1 and excellent L4, with two useful but weaker levels in between.

Questions:
* How are mislynches counted for the illusionist's victory?  Is a mislynch pushed only by the scumteam going to count towards town killing itself?
* Are newly acquired spells usable the night of acquisition?
* When do players know that they have been harmed?

[notquitethere]

Fallacy

Does the Dreadlord have to be alive to win?

No, none of the wincons need to be alive to win in this incarnation.


Jack

A lot of good stuff here.

This is going to be pretty painful for the mafia early on, and I doubt there will be many scumkills for the first few nights.

Wound is a little bit stronger than it first appears: the scum team could (for instance) day-wound to kill, and then have their third heal them at night. Blood magic, combined with co-ordinating their own healing straight off the block will allow the scum team much greater flexibility than the town. But you are right, they could be beefed up a little.

The average townie, being unable to coordinate power selection, will probably pick from the two strongly town-oriented schools: Good and Truth.  Evil L1 is a dud for town (Wound's scumteam only, pretty much, and Delay's quite a niche power), likely pushing townies away from it, and Lies is mostly disruption-focused.  Could see a few townies going Lies and/or Evil, but not many.  What that means is that there will be a ton of people with the low-level Good and Truth powers right from the start of the game, and they're good to great powers, especially en masse.  Several protects (counter any evil spell?  Nice, particularly with many protects floating around), tons of tracks, tons of watches (you're starting Truth with mid-high-power investigative powers), and, if newly acquired spells can be used when acquired, a cluster of Spell-Seeks searching for Evil and Lies spells.

Yes, the early truth powers are a bit too good maybe. Spell-seek could definitely be swapped with Carbon Copy in the ordering.

Wound I see almost no use for outside of the scumteam, needing coordination to be effective, and with Spell-Seek being available almost immediately, why even take it as scum?

I'll be honest: I don't see much correlation between power strength and power level in the setup, except for in Evil.  Truth, for instance, has an excellent L1 and excellent L4, with two useful but weaker levels in between.

I think the reason why I underestimated the strength of track/protect is that in previous CYOMs basically no one ever took them, but this would push too many people to take them.

* How are mislynches counted for the illusionist's victory?  Is a mislynch pushed only by the scumteam going to count towards town killing itself?

Mislynch counts if a town player was on the lynch for a town player, or if a scum player was on the lynch for a scum player. This means the illusionist will be able to get some of their kills through early town-on-town lynches, but they'll still need to cause mischief for maximum damage.

* Are newly acquired spells usable the night of acquisition?

Originally I was thinking you'd level at the end of each day, but given that the game starts in the day phase, maybe it should be at the end of each cycle (so players have to use their L1 spells at least once).

* When do players know that they have been harmed?

Possibilities I was considering:
- They don't know at all unless they are circumspect, so you could have wounded players use blood magic and accidentally kill themselves. Stronger for the scum team (they could speculatively wound a lot of players and wait to see who uses blood magic).
- They're informed of their current health at the end of each phase (with effects much like above, but they'd soon figure out there was scum wounding them)
- Or, most kind to town, players always know their wound level and are blocked from using blood magic if they've been wounded that phase.

[4maskwolf]

I'll get you some feedback in a bit, NQT, in between posting on Mafia Universe.

[TolyK]

Is it me, or is a Dreadlord that instantly Poisons (day- and then night-) folks pretty screwy? That would (potentially) require day-Curing, and many people would end up harmed on the first day, which could end up with plenty of kills in a succession and few ways to stop it.

[notquitethere]

Is it me, or is a Dreadlord that instantly Poisons (day- and then night-) folks pretty screwy? That would (potentially) require day-Curing, and many people would end up harmed on the first day, which could end up with plenty of kills in a succession and few ways to stop it.

Remember the team kill limit still applies to the Dreadlord, so there'd be at most one extra death per phase, but yes, it could be more destructive than intended.

[hector13]

Changeling seems a bit OP for what it is.

You could keep taking level 1 spells for the entire game, then swap it for someone who might have specialized a bit more, and then use a level 1 spell to take everything from another player.

[Jack A T]

Possibilities I was considering:
- They don't know at all unless they are circumspect, so you could have wounded players use blood magic and accidentally kill themselves. Stronger for the scum team (they could speculatively wound a lot of players and wait to see who uses blood magic).
- They're informed of their current health at the end of each phase (with effects much like above, but they'd soon figure out there was scum wounding them)
- Or, most kind to town, players always know their wound level and are blocked from using blood magic if they've been wounded that phase.

NQT: I'd go for the second option.  Always knowing wound level would probably be a bit much info for town in an already info-filled game, and not knowing at all would be ridiculous.  Just imagine these soon-to-be-great mages completely missing their serious wounds.

I think the reason why I underestimated the strength of track/protect is that in previous CYOMs basically no one ever took them, but this would push too many people to take them.

Key thing to recognize about power balance here is that this is not like prior CYOMs.  In prior games, buying powers meant less access to other powers.  Here, it means more access.  Very different power selection process means somewhat different selections.

Also, these are not the same powers as in previous CYOMs.  The protect here gives protection from a quarter of the powers in the game, not just kills, and track and watch are not weakened by a masquerade system.

[Teneb]

Thinking about making a (rather simple) semi-bastard towards the end of this month. Could probably have someone review it though, especially since I've never run a semi-bastard before.

[notquitethere]

I'm happy for you to PM me or email the details.

[Shakerag]

Gauging interest in a game here.

Power Hungry Mafia - So basically what Leafsnail (I think) called Xylbot's chaos mode:  Everyone gets totally randomly assigned powers.  And a double-handful of them to boot.

This is basically going to be a "for funsies" type of game.  Everyone going into it knows it'll be an unbalanced hot mess, and it's mostly going to revolve around playing with various abilities and seeing what kind of batshit setup gets generated.  Days will be short (48 hours?) with one extension (+24 hrs?), nights are 24 hours, and weekends don't count.  This might be a bit more "casual" game as I foresee the day game being light since the main focus is on having lots of abilities.

So just seeing if there would be enough interest to bother throwing something like this up on the queue or not.

[notquitethere]

Gauging interest in a game here.

Power Hungry Mafia - So basically what Leafsnail (I think) called Xylbot's chaos mode:  Everyone gets totally randomly assigned powers.  And a double-handful of them to boot.

This is basically going to be a "for funsies" type of game.  Everyone going into it knows it'll be an unbalanced hot mess, and it's mostly going to revolve around playing with various abilities and seeing what kind of batshit setup gets generated.  Days will be short (48 hours?) with one extension (+24 hrs?), nights are 24 hours, and weekends don't count.  This might be a bit more "casual" game as I foresee the day game being light since the main focus is on having lots of abilities.

So just seeing if there would be enough interest to bother throwing something like this up on the queue or not.

This is Bay 12 to the max really, it'll go down a storm.

[TolyK]

To be honest, that's what most Shakeragian games are about, so I'm for it.

[Persus13]

Sure.

[pisskop]

Pisskop wants to run reverse mafia.

A 8 person game whre the mafia want to get lynched and the town want to reach parity with the mafia.  by getting lynched.


Its got no night to it.